Comparison...

Steve_GP220

Does anyone know how First Direct's Stocks & Shares ISA compares with say Standard Life's Easy ISA? With SL you get a calculator and get something of an idea over my next 12 yrs of saving (I know it can all go up and down etc). I'm guessing FD have to be competitive though right?

eskbanker

They both seem like expensive ways of investing, what led you towards them?

There are much lower cost options available (that won't erode your investment returns by as much) for both funds and platforms to hold them on, so, for example, if you invest in the Vanguard LifeStrategy range on their own platform you'd only pay 0.15% in platform fees rather than the 0.6% that SL impose, as well as significant variances in fund fees.

Best thing to do is to identify the most appropriate fund(s) for your circumstances (e.g. risk tolerance, etc) and then find the best platform on which to hold them, using comparison sites such as:
http://monevator.com/compare-uk-cheapest-online-brokers/
http://www.comparefundplatforms.com/
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5583030

dunstonh

Generally, bank provided options are cut down versions or limited options compared to the decent DIY options. In some cases, the banks use the same software but restrict it heavily.

You also have costs to consider. Banks are largely charging the same or more than full advised options.

I just looked at FD's S&S ISA and it seems to be set up as a sharedealing based ISA rather than a funds based ISA. Whereas Standard Life (another cut down option that is effectively a robo-advice option) is focused on supplying 5 funds covering 5 risk profiles (and it quite expensive for a robo-advice - its annual charges are higher than mine on full advice basis including the cost of advice).

So, you seem to be comparing two very different types of ISA aimed to two very different types of investor.

Steve_GP220

I mentioned FD because I'm with them for my banking. And SL I mentioned because they were who my pension with my previous employer were with. I'm still in research mode before I make any decisions.

Steve_GP220

dunstonh wrote: »

Generally, bank provided options are cut down versions or limited options compared to the decent DIY options. In some cases, the banks use the same software but restrict it heavily.

You also have costs to consider. Banks are largely charging the same or more than full advised options.

I just looked at FD's S&S ISA and it seems to be set up as a sharedealing based ISA rather than a funds based ISA. Whereas Standard Life (another cut down option that is effectively a robo-advice option) is focused on supplying 5 funds covering 5 risk profiles (and it quite expensive for a robo-advice - its annual charges are higher than mine on full advice basis including the cost of advice).

So, you seem to be comparing two very different types of ISA aimed to two very different types of investor.

See my previous response. I'm just asking questions at this point in time. I guess that's what I need to do next is look at comparative charges.

bowlhead99

FD are basically a bank, not an investment firm. They offer an S&S ISA via a stockbroking service which lets you sell individual company shares on the stock exchange. You could buy anything listed on the UK stock exchange including ETFs (specialist funds that track an index). However, as a newbie investor who doesn't know anything about investment, buying and selling things on the stock market is too much of an advanced option for you IMHO and not worth looking at. You need to be able to invest in a simple fund that allocates your money across asset classes and countries.

Standard Life offer a better choice for someone like you, where you can select from a wide range of investment funds offered (DIY option) or a much simpler choice (Easy option) whereby you select from a limited range of their own funds investing in a mix of company shares, bonds and property. With the full DIY option they charge a fee for the ISA and administering the investment platform (0.6% of your assets a year on the first £100k, which is one of the highest costs on the market) and then the individual fund you select to buy inside the ISA will also have its own charges (management fee and running costs).

At standard life the Easy option of using one of their funds (with running costs of 0.7-0.9% a year) plus their 0.6% platform fee will take you up to between 1.3%-1.5%. Though it would give you a nice simple choice and be easy to administer it is pretty expensive - imagine if you are making 6% investment returns a year, those charges would eat a quarter of it.

You would probably be better off going to a fund supermarket provider like Charles Stanley Direct https://www.charles-stanley-direct.co.uk/Our_Services/ISA/ which is 0.25% a year platform fee plus the fund charge. So even if you had an identical performing fund with identical charges, the 0.25% vs 0.60% platform fee is much much better.

The Charles Stanley site does not limit you to a few 'easy options' of internal funds so there is a heck of a lot to choose from. But an example of suitable funds may be the Legal & General Multi Index funds which hold a range of international shares, bonds and property with a range of risk levels (5 is in the middle, 7 is the upper end)

https://www.charles-stanley-direct.co.uk/InvestmentSearch/Search?SearchText=l%26g+multi+index&submit=Search (search for phrase "l&g multi index") when that link inevitably fails to work!

dunstonh

Steve_GP220 wrote: »

See my previous response. I'm just asking questions at this point in time. I guess that's what I need to do next is look at comparative charges.

You are doing this back to front. You are looking at costing solutions without knowing what you are after. Before you look at charges, you need to filter the type of S&S ISA you are after.

There is no point costing and comparing robo-advice solutions or sharedealing solutions if you are after an investment fund solution.

Steve_GP220

bowlhead99 wrote: »

FD are basically a bank, not an investment firm. They offer an S&S ISA via a stockbroking service which lets you sell individual company shares on the stock exchange. You could buy anything listed on the UK stock exchange including ETFs (specialist funds that track an index). However, as a newbie investor who doesn't know anything about investment, buying and selling things on the stock market is too much of an advanced option for you IMHO and not worth looking at. You need to be able to invest in a simple fund that allocates your money across asset classes and countries.

You're right. I don't want anything complex. Maybe a few years ago I would have delved a little bit, but now.. nah!

Standard Life offer a better choice for someone like you, where you can select from a wide range of investment funds offered (DIY option) or a much simpler choice (Easy option) whereby you select from a limited range of their own funds investing in a mix of company shares, bonds and property. With the full DIY option they charge a fee for the ISA and administering the investment platform (0.6% of your assets a year on the first £100k, which is one of the highest costs on the market) and then the individual fund you select to buy inside the ISA will also have its own charges (management fee and running costs).

At standard life the Easy option of using one of their funds (with running costs of 0.7-0.9% a year) plus their 0.6% platform fee will take you up to between 1.3%-1.5%. Though it would give you a nice simple choice and be easy to administer it is pretty expensive - imagine if you are making 6% investment returns a year, those charges would eat a quarter of it.

SL site does make it all look good, its very slick, and their calculator however wide or narrow of the mark doesn't indicate the returns AFTER charges. That would be a better indicator for me!

You would probably be better off going to a fund supermarket provider like Charles Stanley Direct which is 0.25% a year platform fee plus the fund charge. So even if you had an identical performing fund with identical charges, the 0.25% vs 0.60% platform fee is much much better.

Yes I think I will be shopping around, based on what you say here!

The Charles Stanley site does not limit you to a few 'easy options' of internal funds so there is a heck of a lot to choose from. But an example of suitable funds may be the Legal & General Multi Index funds which hold a range of international shares, bonds and property with a range of risk levels (5 is in the middle, 7 is the upper end)

I'm not against easy. At 58, easy is good for me. I guess having decided which way to go, I am now looking at charges across the board and across different providers.

Many thanks for this info - very useful!

Lokolo

You need to figure out what you want to invest in.

Directly into shares? Or funds?
In a tax wrapper (ISA/SIPP), or outside?
How much?
How many trades?

Snowman had a spreadsheet somewhere......

Steve_GP220

dunstonh wrote: »

You are doing this back to front. You are looking at costing solutions without knowing what you are after. Before you look at charges, you need to filter the type of S&S ISA you are after.

There is no point costing and comparing robo-advice solutions or sharedealing solutions if you are after an investment fund solution.

I'm pretty sure it will be a stocks and shares ISA over 12 yrs at between £750 and £1000 per month give or take. I did another thread here, late retirement plan. But I already decided that I don't want a retirement plan as such. The ISA will suit me fine I think. Hence now I am looking at costs involved.

Audaxer

As you are not looking for anything too complex, or I would assume too risky, you would certainly be better looking at funds rather than investing directly in shares. A low cost passive diversified global multi asset fund is a good option that you could research - examples such as Vanguard Life Strategy, L&G Multi Index and HSBC Global Strategy funds. With any these funds you can choose your preferred risk level of equities to bonds. You then need to decide whether best to invest it in a S&S ISA or SIPP, and find the best low cost platform - eskbanker above has provided a link to compare platforms.

This would give you a simpler and lower cost solution than the other options you were looking at.