Live-in landlords vs rental tenants in freehold block of flats

Househelp100

Hello

I live in a block of flats of which all the owners share a portion of the freehold. We are all part of the management company.

In around 2/3rds of the flats the landlords live in the flats. In the other 1/3rd, the landlords live far away (overseas or hundreds of miles away) and they have rented these to tenants. The tenants of these flats have caused many problems. Such as: contaminating the recycling bins constantly by throwing nappies in there. Having rats living under their floorboards (all ground floor flats) and not reporting it, with rats then chewing through pipes and causing leaks which also went unreported. Leaving property in communal areas (basement etc). These issues then have caused us, the management company to have to pay out quite significantly for private cleaning / waste removal / pest control / plumbers as the pipes run through all flats.

Could anyone give any advice on what we can do? The tenants in the flats don’t speak good English and we have real concerns that they could be causing further problems (for example, flushing baby wipes which is likely to cause an issue that we don’t know about until some real damage has been done). These landlords are also fairly unresponsive to emails and it also seems very unfair that the management of the building falls to those who live here by virtue of the fact we are.

Could anyone give advice on how to take this forward? Can we request the letting agent carry out thorough inspections of the properties and increase the service charge fee for those landlords who have rental tenants?

Thank you

Guest101

Househelp100 wrote: »

Hello

I live in a block of flats of which all the owners share a portion of the freehold. We are all part of the management company.

In around 2/3rds of the flats the landlords live in the flats. In the other 1/3rd, the landlords live far away (overseas or hundreds of miles away) and they have rented these to tenants. The tenants of these flats have caused many problems. Such as: contaminating the recycling bins constantly by throwing nappies in there. Having rats living under their floorboards (all ground floor flats) and not reporting it - to be fair 1: that's where rats live and 2: if they're under the floor boards it's not their responsibility to report. Frankly it's the management companies job to ensure that sufficient pest control measures are in place , with rats then chewing through pipes and causing leaks which also went unreported. - again how would they know about this? Leaving property in communal areas (basement etc). These issues then have caused us, the management company to have to pay out quite significantly for private cleaning / waste removal / pest control / plumbers as the pipes run through all flats. - Indeed, but that's why you have a management company? I mean these are common issues (and certainly some of which are not the responsibility of individual leaseholders)

Could anyone give any advice on what we can do? - Speak to the leasholders (NOT the tenants) The tenants in the flats don’t speak good English and we have real concerns that they could be causing further problems (for example, flushing baby wipes which is likely to cause an issue that we don’t know about until some real damage has been done). - You have no contract with them, so you cant act against them in any capacity. These landlords are also fairly unresponsive to emails and it also seems very unfair that the management of the building falls to those who live here by virtue of the fact we are. - You can ofcourse choose to bring in a management company to do it for you, but you'll pay 15-20% premium for the privilege.

Could anyone give advice on how to take this forward? Can we request the letting agent carry out thorough inspections of the properties - definitely not! Are you mad?! and increase the service charge fee for those landlords who have rental tenants? - how will you manage that?!

Thank you

You have no clue how to manage a freehold, so why are you doing it? - surely this is where you want professionals?

Househelp100

Thank you very much for your reply, and sorry if some of these questions are silly.

Re the rats / leak etc, the tenants moved out of that flat and after it had been empty for a week or so the most awful smell was coming from it - the floorboards were removed to find 2 inches of rat droppings under the floorboards and a dead rat. How would the tenants have lived there without possibly hearing this?! None of the rest of us heard anything in the walls etc so knew there were rats.

Likewise with the leak - this was also revealed after they had moved out because the floorboards in the bathroom / under the boxed in bath were entirely mouldy - again it smelt awful and no idea how the tenants could have lived there.

It just seems so unfair to deal with these issues when the landlords of the flats manage to get away with not doing much!

Househelp100

"You have no clue how to manage a freehold, so why are you doing it? - surely this is where you want professionals?"

Absolutely, and that's where this is heading. But as i said - seems very unfair that those who live in the properties respect the building and those tenants do not. How they could live like that i have no idea!

Guest101

Househelp100 wrote: »

Thank you very much for your reply, and sorry if some of these questions are silly. - They're silly when they come from someone running a management company

Re the rats / leak etc, the tenants moved out of that flat and after it had been empty for a week or so the most awful smell was coming from it - the floorboards were removed to find 2 inches of rat droppings under the floorboards and a dead rat. How would the tenants have lived there without possibly hearing this?! - Perhaps that's why they moved out? If you could smell it after just one week, then it sounds like it wasn't a long term problem. That said, they aren't responsible for the underneath of their flat. None of the rest of us heard anything in the walls etc so knew there were rats. - But you must have (and im pretty sure it's MUST, by law, have) some form of pest control around the building?

Likewise with the leak - this was also revealed after they had moved out because the floorboards in the bathroom / under the boxed in bath were entirely mouldy - again it smelt awful and no idea how the tenants could have lived there. - perhaps they complained to their landlord who ignored them? I mean how were you even in this property?? It's not yours, so how did you gain access?

It just seems so unfair to deal with these issues when the landlords of the flats manage to get away with not doing much!

I still don't understand what right you think you have to deal with the issues in the way that you have?

Guest101

Househelp100 wrote: »

"You have no clue how to manage a freehold, so why are you doing it? - surely this is where you want professionals?"

Absolutely, and that's where this is heading. But as i said - seems very unfair that those who live in the properties respect the building and those tenants do not. How they could live like that i have no idea!

I doubt that the rats under the floor boards could be attributed to the tenants. frankly the tenants should've sued the LL, who in turn would sue the management company - for failing to take adequate steps to prevent pests.


Before we go further, can you explain how you gained access to this property?

Househelp100

Thanks again for your replies.

The tenants moved out of their flat because it was sold, and I knocked on the door to welcome to new owners to the building - they invited me in to show me how bad it was.

"I still don't understand what right you think you have to deal with the issues in the way that you have?"

So far all these costs have been paid out of the management company fund. So there has been no impact negatively on the tenants.

Guest101

Househelp100 wrote: »

Thanks again for your replies.

The tenants moved out of their flat because it was sold, and I knocked on the door to welcome to new owners to the building - they invited me in to show me how bad it was. - Fair enough, but that's their problem. They should've done a homebuyers report.

"I still don't understand what right you think you have to deal with the issues in the way that you have?"

So far all these costs have been paid out of the management company fund. So there has been no impact negatively on the tenants.

So the freeholder has accepted responsibility for the issues.


The tenants will not have any negative impact as the only person they had a contract with was their landlord, who has now sold the property.

Househelp100

Re the homebuyers survey - i have asked the new owners if these issues were highlighted to them at the time. I have no idea if they were or weren't.

Yes, so far the freeholder has accepted responsibility for the issues. What your responses have highlighted is how out of our depth the management company is overall in running this whole thing!

Guest101

Househelp100 wrote: »

Re the homebuyers survey - i have asked the new owners if these issues were highlighted to them at the time. I have no idea if they were or weren't.

Yes, so far the freeholder has accepted responsibility for the issues. What your responses have highlighted is how out of our depth the management company is overall in running this whole thing!

Indeed, I mean it's not really your concern if they have or not. Just saying that caveat emptor, they should've done.


the main issue is that you have no contract with the tenants, so any issues need to be highlighted to the relevant leaseholder. - that is the same whether you have a management company or not.

Househelp100

"the main issue is that you have no contract with the tenants, so any issues need to be highlighted to the relevant leaseholder."

Yes, and my frustration is we had no idea there were leaks / problems because the tenants hadn't reported them (another freeholder has checked with their letting agent). And now I see, for example, that a pest control solution should have been in problem. Which we as a management company didn't see to and could have been avoided.

Thanks again for all your help and advice, much appreciated