eBay problem - money taken from my account

Sammy5

Hello,

Got a bit of a weird one here and I imagine I'm not going to get my money back, but here goes. I'll set it out in steps, as it'll hopefully be clearer that way...

1) I sold an item on eBay to a buyer in Canada.

2) I sent the item by tracked and signed for post, as it was worth £40. Total payment to me came to around £50. I had to pay eBay fees, naturally, and postage was actually £12.50 (so I was already out of pocket there).

3) I added tracking details to the eBay order. Everything was going okay, but tracking ceased when it reached Canada - presumably something went wrong there.

4) The buyer opened a missing item case.

5) I contacted Royal Mail, they advised that it would probably still be delivered but would be delayed.

6) I spoke to an eBay advisor and explained what Royal Mail had said. I explained I was concerned about what'd happen if the case was closed and the item turned up after. They advised me not to close the case, just allow it to escalate and close automatically if needs be in favour of the buyer. I kept the buyer informed of this at all times.

7) Item didn't turn up in time and eBay escalated and then closed the case in favour of the buyer. The £50 was taken from my PayPal account.

8) A few days later, I checked the tracking as I was starting to get things together for my lost item claim with Royal Mail (which couldn't be started for another week after the case was closed, as only then would the item be considered 'lost') - the item was delivered. So I have no claim against Royal Mail to get my money.

9) The next day, the buyer e-mails me and says it was delivered and they'd like to pay the money the following week. I said that's okay, but I'd like to do it properly - I ask eBay if they will re-open the case and do this the correct way so that my account is no longer marked down, the buyer pays and all the boxes are ticked.

10) eBay Canada refuse the appeal and after three more attempts, having been very forceful with eBay UK (who say they have no power), eBay Canada still refuse to give me my money. They just keep saying their decision was final and that I should send a PayPal request to the buyer for the money.

11) The icing on the cake... eBay said that I can't have my fees returned for this sale, as I didn't close the case voluntarily (as advised BY THEM!). So I'm actually paying to lose money! I swear I'm not making this up

So what am I to do? I've tried speaking to eBay UK again and again, but they just say I'm right and that I shouldn't be left out of pocket, they send the details over to eBay Canada who just close the appeal within a couple of hours. Is this legal and is there anything I can do?

Any help or advice would be very much appreciated.

Thanks,
Sam

Gavin83

I don't see the issue. The buyer has already stated they're willing to pay the amount to you, just send them an invoice and be done with it.

Sammy5

I have done that and they might pay (although at this point they've stopped responding to messages)... in any event, I have no guarantee of that. What if they don't? And where would this leave me in future if the same thing happens again? I sometimes post items overseas worth hundreds... could eBay simply refuse to deal with it again and potentially leave me hundreds of pounds out of pocket? Is their strategy of hiding behind the decision of eBay Canada watertight?

Sammy5

This is the e-mail I keep getting from eBay Canada (I've had near-identical e-mails four times now). In this one they don't even acknowledge that it was tracked and signed for, even though this is 100% confirmed on the Royal Mail website and they've even had proof of posting with that tracking number sent to them. They just keep saying their decision is final...

Dear Sam,

Thanks for contacting eBay about the steelbook (#). I understand that you want us to reconsider our decision since the buyer admitted item receipt. My name is Juzanie, a specialist from eBay's Resolution Centre, Allow me to explain this further

We're unable to approve your appeal because the item is not delivered or was confirmed delivered by the buyer at the time that we have to decide on the case.

Once a case is closed, the decision is final. You’ll receive an automated email with the same information, I'd like to suggest some other ways to resolve this.

I recommend contacting the buyer directly and ask the buyer to refuse delivery of the package or have them repay for the item since they might received it by now.
Here are the steps to request the buyer's contact information (including phone number):
1. Go to eBay.
2. Near the top of the home page, click the "Advanced” link to the right of the "Search" button.
3. In the "Members" section on the left side of the page, click "Find contact information."
4. Enter in the buyer's username and the item number.
5. Click the "Search" button.

I trust that I was able to explain our decision on the case clearly.

Thanks for choosing eBay!

Juzanie Z.
eBay Customer Service

soolin

I'm surprised OP didn't post this on the eBay board .

Anyway, you are right in thinking that if your parcels are severely delayed then you stand to lose out if a case is opened, it is quite rare though for fully tracked overseas items to be that delayed, unless they are caught at customs, and you don't mention that as being the case here.

I would also just point out that you have another issue that you appear to have overlooked. By allowing the case to be escalated and found for the buyer you lost your FVFs plus you have a defect. As few as 2 defects for a low volume seller could see you restricted or suspended.never allow a case to be escalated unless you know you can win, always refund before that point as that saves your FVFs and also means that no defect is received.

Check your expanded seller dashboard just to see what's happening and to make sure there is nothing else lurking there.

Sammy5

Apologies, I didn't realise there was an eBay board...

soolin wrote: »

I'm surprised OP didn't post this on the eBay board .

Anyway, you are right in thinking that if your parcels are severely delayed then you stand to lose out if a case is opened, it is quite rare though for fully tracked overseas items to be that delayed, unless they are caught at customs, and you don't mention that as being the case here.

Absolutely correct, it wasn't held up at customs. Once it got there, it seemingly vanished - it was never checked in and just kept showing as being on the way to Canada. I can't really understand how what eBay are doing is legal though? It's the judgment of eBay that this was lost, but most certainly not the fact and definitely not the opinion of Royal Mail, who said it was still highly likely to be delivered. And Royal Mail said they wouldn't consider it lost until 30 days had passed and I can't imagine many postal services in other countries considering overseas mail lost so soon. So providing the option to open a case so soon on overseas orders which are more likely to be delayed seems pretty dumb...

soolin wrote: »

I would also just point out that you have another issue that you appear to have overlooked. By allowing the case to be escalated and found for the buyer you lost your FVFs plus you have a defect. As few as 2 defects for a low volume seller could see you restricted or suspended.never allow a case to be escalated unless you know you can win, always refund before that point as that saves your FVFs and also means that no defect is received.

Point 6... they advised me specifically NOT to close the case. I asked if they were sure, as I'd never allowed it to happen before, specifically for the reasons you mention. They said I should leave it because the item was considered still in transit. So clearly someone at eBay gave me bad advice and I was later refused a FVF refund because I followed that advice.

I'm going to continue trying to fight this though, because I can't understand why I'm being punished for doing everything correctly. I posted the item quickly and securely, they received the item, I've followed the advice eBay have given me, I'm trying to tie up all the loose ends correctly and get the money I'm owed for the item... I can't really see what I could have done differently here? And they can easily absorb a £50 loss if it came down to it, although they'd chase a seller who owed them money to the ends of the Earth, so why they can't just refund me and bill this guy is beyond me. £50 is a lot of money to me.

theonlywayisup

Sammy5 wrote: »

Apologies, I didn't realise there was an eBay board...



Absolutely correct, it wasn't held up at customs. Once it got there, it seemingly vanished - it was never checked in and just kept showing as being on the way to Canada. I can't really understand how what eBay are doing is legal though? It's the judgment of eBay that this was lost, but most certainly not the fact and definitely not the opinion of Royal Mail, who said it was still highly likely to be delivered. And Royal Mail said they wouldn't consider it lost until 30 days had passed and I can't imagine many postal services in other countries considering overseas mail lost so soon. So providing the option to open a case so soon on overseas orders which are more likely to be delayed seems pretty dumb...

Actually it was the judgement by ebay that the item wasn't delivered within the delivery estimate.

Sammy5 wrote: »

Point 6... they advised me specifically NOT to close the case. I asked if they were sure, as I'd never allowed it to happen before, specifically for the reasons you mention. They said I should leave it because the item was considered still in transit. So clearly someone at eBay gave me bad advice and I was later refused a FVF refund because I followed that advice.

In part the advice was correct as you closing the case would mean the case would be lost at the second it was closed. However, they should have let you know that on day 8 the buyer could escalate and unless tracking was showing delivery you would still lose. Either way, you would have lost. Delivery on ebay means that it has to be delivered within the delivery estimate. If it isn't then you will lose cases

Sammy5 wrote: »

I'm going to continue trying to fight this though, because I can't understand why I'm being punished for doing everything correctly. I posted the item quickly and securely, they received the item, I've followed the advice eBay have given me, I'm trying to tie up all the loose ends correctly and get the money I'm owed for the item... I can't really see what I could have done differently here? And they can easily absorb a £50 loss if it came down to it, although they'd chase a seller who owed them money to the ends of the Earth, so why they can't just refund me and bill this guy is beyond me. £50 is a lot of money to me.

I am not sure why the buyer didn't pay particularly when they said they would, perhaps your appeal made them cross that you didn't trust them, I don't know.

There is little else you can do other than give up or continue to fight ebay.

Sammy5

theonlywayisup wrote: »

Actually it was the judgement by ebay that the item wasn't delivered within the delivery estimate.



In part the advice was correct as you closing the case would mean the case would be lost at the second it was closed. However, they should have let you know that on day 8 the buyer could escalate and unless tracking was showing delivery you would still lose. Either way, you would have lost. Delivery on ebay means that it has to be delivered within the delivery estimate. If it isn't then you will lose cases



I am not sure why the buyer didn't pay particularly when they said they would, perhaps your appeal made them cross that you didn't trust them, I don't know.

There is little else you can do other than give up or continue to fight ebay.

Actually it was the judgement by ebay that the item wasn't delivered within the delivery estimate.

Not according to eBay themselves. Actually they said that had it shown any sign of having moved during that time then this wouldn't have happened. It's because the postal system in Canada failed me and there was no tracking update that they considered it 'lost'.

I do understand the general workings of eBay (3000+ feedback), but items delivered outside the estimated time period aren't automatically refunded, precisely because they're estimates. I have my settings so that the time period before dispatch is as high as possible to try to minimise this sort of problem, even though I usually post within 1-2 days.

But anyway, eBay did refund me in the end, although it took 10+ phone calls, legal threats etc.. I don't know what got me the result in the end, but the manager who finally dealt with it was amazing. It's just a pity I hadn't been able to speak to him sooner. And the person didn't pay in the end either... had they done so (having now been refunded) I was going to donate the money to charity. As far as I'm concerned, they got their item and should do the honest thing, but not everyone is like that. With any luck, they'll one day find themselves on the receiving end (I sure hope so).

Anyway, that's it... all over. I'm never posting another item to Canada or dealing with those morons at eBay Canada again.