Flat ownership not showing on Land Registry

3mph

There are 30 odd flats in my block but one of them shows on the Register but all I get when buying the "Title Register" is a copy of the Freehold details. All the other flats I have tried I can download the usual extract with price of leasehold etc. For the flat all it shows is "Title Register" for documents to download.

All I could think of is can someone buy 2 of the flats and somehow combine them? But that doesn't seem right as the flat has a rateable band listed on the council web site

Am I doing something wrong. Thanks

3mph

I should add the reason I searched was to see if a flat on an upper floor was likely to come onto the market, I was trying to guess by who owned and where they lived as it is I think a second home,

G_M

Please improve your English so this is comprehensible!

3mph wrote: »

There are 30 odd flats in my block but one of them shows on the Register
You mean all but one?Or you've only checked one? Or what?
And what does it show?A freehold Title? A leasehold Title? Or both?

but all I get when buying the "Title Register" is a copy of the Freehold details.
So I assume you bought the freehold title - what did you expect?

All the other flats I have tried I can download the usual extract with price of leasehold etc.
So the other flats have two Titles each yes?

For the flat all it shows is "Title Register" for documents to download.

All I could think of is can someone buy 2 of the flats and somehow combine them? But that doesn't seem right as the flat has a rateable band listed on the council web site

Am I doing something wrong. Thanks

When was the property built?
When were the leases created?
If the lease has never changed hands since the introduction of compulsory registration with the LR then it would not be registered.

3mph

There are 30 odd flats in my block but one of them shows on the Register
You mean all but one?
Yes, sorry not doing too well with tablet keyboard.

Or you've only checked one? Or what?
No, checked 9 of them (ones I could be interested in)

And what does it show?A freehold Title? A leasehold Title? Or both?

Each flat shows Tenure: Leasehold Price Paid/Value Stated Data: Yes
Tenure: Freehold Price Paid/Value Stated Data: Yes

But for the flat I am interested in it just shows: Title register (example )
Flood Risk Indicator result (example)

And when I buy and download the Title register all that shows is the details of the purchase of the freehold of the original property by the Management Company who are the current freeholders

but all I get when buying the "Title Register" is a copy of the Freehold details.
So I assume you bought the freehold title - what did you expect?
I expected to get the leaseholder details for that flat, as I get for all the other ones I have downloaded.


All the other flats I have tried I can download the usual extract with price of leasehold etc.
So the other flats have two Titles each yes?
Yes all of them

For the flat all it shows is "Title Register" for documents to download.

All I could think of is can someone buy 2 of the flats and somehow combine them? But that doesn't seem right as the flat has a rateable band listed on the council web site

Am I doing something wrong. Thanks
Originally posted by 3mph
”
When was the property built? 2005
When were the leases created? 2005
If the lease has never changed hands since the introduction of compulsory registration with the LR then it would not be registered. Built after compulsory registration

Land_Registry

3mph not 100% clear as to what the search result revealed but that's probably me

On the FH register I assume the leases are listed and the Flat you are searching is not? I'm assuming not.

And is the date of the FH register the date searched or is it an older date?
If 'older' then it may be that the lease registration is as yet not completed. That seems unlikely if granted in 2005/6 though.

So if the answer is no to both then the flat is probably either unlet or on a short let. And it's the Management company you'd need to approach for more details. I'd be surprised if two flats were registered under one flat for example

Owain_Moneysaver

3mph wrote: »

All I could think of is can someone buy 2 of the flats and somehow combine them?

It's possible, and Land Registry ownership records don't necessarily correlate with council tax or other records, but to properly combine two flats into one physical dwelling would require
- freeholder's consent
- local authority planning permission
- building regulations for any internal alterations
- freeholder's consent for any internal alterations
- revaluation and reregistration for council tax
- removal of the non-deliverable flat from the local authority address gazetteer, and consequently
- removal of the non-deliverable flat from the Royal Mail Postal Address File

as well as amending the registration at the Land Registry.

CIS

We used to use the land registry for searches over council tax queries and struggling to find a property was quite common - occasionally a request had to be made for the land registry to make a manual search, other times the property was found but under an unusual name.

Have you checked the number of properties registered with the Valuation Office to see how many they show for the building ? https://www.gov.uk/council-tax-bands

Craig

eddddy

Not sure if it's just me, but I had to read the LR Rep's post a few times to understand it.

To paraphrase (I think) :

Somebody may have built a block of 30 flats, and sold 29 of them on long leases. Those long leases were recorded with LR.

The 30th flat could have been retained by the freeholder, or may have been sold on a short lease. Short leases don't have to be recorded with LR.

(I'm not sure whether 'short lease' means less than 3 years, 7 years or 21 years. The rules seem a bit complex.)

Land_Registry

eddddy wrote: »

Not sure if it's just me, but I had to read the LR Rep's post a few times to understand it.

To paraphrase (I think) :

Somebody may have built a block of 30 flats, and sold 29 of them on long leases. Those long leases were recorded with LR.

The 30th flat could have been retained by the freeholder, or may have been sold on a short lease. Short leases don't have to be recorded with LR.

(I'm not sure whether 'short lease' means less than 3 years, 7 years or 21 years. The rules seem a bit complex.)

Edddy apologies if unclear, must be catching, but that's the nuts and bolts of it. However I suspect there's a logical reason for the LH not showing or it is, but not obvious. Hopefully a bit more detail from OP will reveal all

Re your comment re lease terms - historically leases under 21 years were not registered. That changed in 2002/3 when that was reduced to 7 years.

Some shorter leases can be registered but these are rare and under very specific circs very different to private landlord granting lease to a private tenant