Help to choose composite door

PlanetX

Hi guys,

I'm looking at composite doors and I had in mind £500 would do the job, but it seems there are tons of brands which have no proven reputation and lots of horror histories after a couple of weeks researching on google. I'm looking for a long term quality door, but I was hoping to not spend much, but perhaps what I want is not possible. The 2 brands that come up a lot is Solidor and Rockdoor, but comes with a higher price tag. if I can't find any alternative to them that can offer quality and peace of mind, so be it, I'll have to spend more. If there are well know manufactures/installer that you guys could recommend, then I would be very happy

I've gathered some information and it seems there are a few things to take into equation:

1. South facing door, sunlight and door/frame expanding
2. Darker colours tend to fade after a while, especially red
3. Solidor has timber core, while Rockdoor has foam core. I don;t expect someone to come and pierce my door, but Solidor would have an upper hand in my opinion. Rockdoor carbon fibre seems to only add rigidity to the frame
4. Low profile aluminium thresholds are prone to draught and water leak in some situations, perhaps use a regular door frame all around
5. Does the letterbox affect much the insulation?
6. I would like to have a Yale Conexis L1 smart lock in place. It seems any regular multilock system can do it as long the middle of door handle and the cylinder are 92mm apart


I've found rightdoor.co.uk to sell Rockdoor installed in London for £1117 VAT inc rightdoor.co.uk/rock-door-ultimate/vermont/plain-glazed which so far is the cheapest I've come across online and I've seems a few success histories with them on the forums. phglazingsolutions.co.uk doesn't give prices but seem to have good reputation on checkatrade.com which I like, this shows transparency of the business.

I could not get quotes yet from Solidor as their installer finder system is not working on their website. What prices should I expect from a basic door like the Vermont on the link above?

There are a few other brands/shops that I've come across but I'm not sure what to say, these are my findings:

1. hormann.co.uk high quality, perhaps better than Rockdoor and Solidor but very expensive
2. compositedoorshop.co.uk saw some people recommending them, but I've no idea what door brand they use, I'm afraid of low quality chinese imports
3. valuedoors.co.uk/composite-doors Rockdoors are about £1350+ and some reports that they are not good, they seems to be just a broker in the end
4. abbeywindows.co.uk/upvc-doors/ultimate-composite-doors/ not sure if the ultimate door they sell is actually Rockdoor
5. heritagetradeframes.co.uk/ just another composite seller or manufacturer, not sure if they are any good
6. trade-upvc.co.uk are based in South London, that is the only reason I mentioned as I'm planning to visit their shop
7. endurancedoors.co.uk have very good website and marketing material, no idea if the doors are also any good? The brochure has a lot of information
8. compositedoorprices.co.uk/solidor-composite-doors/[/url] seems to use other websites to give prices, not sure if they are just another broker?
9.rocksolidoors.co.uk/component/virtuemart/solidor.html the only website so far with Solidor prices


Apologies for the long post, perhaps I'm thinking too much about what would work for me, but considering the costs I think it is worth one I decide to go ahead to get the best I can for my hard earned money.

Could you guys please share your thoughts? I would really appreciated it!

Furts

A local authority on my door step has been doing an ongoing job over the last ten years replacing thousands of composite doors. All are from various manufacturers, all are rubbish - otherwise they would not have been replaced.

A housing association with properties adjacent to me has also been through various manufacturers each one having been rejected for making cr-p doors. I looked at one of their latest doors and the fitting was rubbish.

Here my point is twofold. Composite doors are a current "must have" and manufacturers have responded with dross to unsuspecting consumers. Second, the surveying of measurements, and the standard of fitting, is dismal.

My composite door is a DoorStop. It has dropped - par for course, and it has faded- - par for the course. The hinges have been renewed, and the ironmongery and the glazing - none have lasted more than a few years. The design is flawed, the concept is flawed. Am I furious about this? Not really because the doors are cheap, and the direct competitors are no better. Indeed, in some ways they are far worse.

It sounds like you are in London. Bear in mind a key point. There will be thousands of original timber doors in your near vicinity. Many will have lasted without problems for over one hundred years. Countless composite doors have no chance of achieving this lifespan.

PlanetX

I've a timber door, as many of my neighbours and a few including mine have warped and keep rubbing against the frame, and feel really low quality. It could be because of weather as it gets a fair amount of rain and sunlight most of the day. One of them replaced recently with a composite door which I'm waiting to hear how good it actually is, and some other neighbours are starting to think about replacing their old doors as well.

I'm sure there will be better timber doors that can last longer, but I'm quite a big fan of improvements in material and processes in many areas and I think composite doors if done right and manufactured property have a better potential. The problem is to find the right one for the right price as there are too many bad players on the market. The same can be used in many other areas/industries when there is something to make a profit, many jump in but perhaps many also will fall due to bad service/product over time.

I'm still not sure what to do, but I would like something that is very precise, quality and well fit, that also looks good and has excellent insulation.

Furts

Your door has warped, but was it properly decorated and protected in the first place? Equally it is rubbing, but it is easy DIY to overcome this. Here my point is shaving down, decorating, packing hinges, shooting in tops and bottoms is all nigh on impossible with composite doors. These have come onto the market to dumb down skills, fitting, DIY, and so on. I accept they are here, and I accept there is little alternative. Consequently I have one, but know it is vastly inferior to what was run of the mill timber doors installed by ordinary house builders just 30 years ago.

Your choice is simple, and you are vastly over complicating matters. You either accept a cheap and nasty door like mine or you move upmarket with price. In the cheap and nasty band you look at DoorStop and similar priced doors and simply look at the product. If you want to pay more then you set a budget and look at a comparison between say Solidor and Rockdoor.

DoorStop are shrewd and commercial - they have started supplying solid doors. But this overlooks glaring issues. Such doors were a failure when introduced around 30+ years ago, and then there is the weight, and the all the fixing issues. Hence a heavy door may tick your boxes, but you have to be savvy when analysing what is being offered.

There is no substitute for touching, feeling and analysing. If you believe you can satisfy your demanding requirements from the web and web based middlemen then you are likely to be disappointed.

onomatopoeia99

I have porches on my front and rear doors, so four "external" doors total.

Front porch door - solid hardwood "paneled" design with a small glass window at around head height. The wood in a couple of panels has split and there's a 1/4" gap running down two of them as a consequence.

Front door (inside the porch, so the actual front door) - Steel, by Hormann. Looks fabulous.
Exceptionally rigid and solid, doesn't expand, contract, warp or do anything it's not supposed to. Excellent in every respect. Very, very expensive. People who have visited have made comments like it should have a big wheel to open it like like bank vaults in flims!

Rear porch door. - uPVC, glass panel in top half, plastic in bottom half. Pretty awful, flexible. White, so it doesn't fade though.

Rear door - Composite by "valuedoors" (no idea who actually manufactured it). So far (only been in two years) no problems with it. It's white so isn't fading and is actually still white. Nowhere near as robust in feel at the steel door (way better than the uPVC one and similar to the hardwood), but at a quarter of the price you wouldn't expect that. Opens and closes smoothly, locking action is perfect - I'm sure a lot of that is down to care by the fitters, they did spend a good while adjusting it once installed to get the action perfect and it has given no problems since.

Were I buying another front door I'd go to Hormann.

PlanetX

Furts wrote: »

Your door has warped, but was it properly decorated and protected in the first place? Equally it is rubbing, but it is easy DIY to overcome this. Here my point is shaving down, decorating, packing hinges, shooting in tops and bottoms is all nigh on impossible with composite doors. These have come onto the market to dumb down skills, fitting, DIY, and so on. I accept they are here, and I accept there is little alternative. Consequently I have one, but know it is vastly inferior to what was run of the mill timber doors installed by ordinary house builders just 30 years ago.

Your choice is simple, and you are vastly over complicating matters. You either accept a cheap and nasty door like mine or you move upmarket with price. In the cheap and nasty band you look at DoorStop and similar priced doors and simply look at the product. If you want to pay more then you set a budget and look at a comparison between say Solidor and Rockdoor.

DoorStop are shrewd and commercial - they have started supplying solid doors. But this overlooks glaring issues. Such doors were a failure when introduced around 30+ years ago, and then there is the weight, and the all the fixing issues. Hence a heavy door may tick your boxes, but you have to be savvy when analysing what is being offered.

There is no substitute for touching, feeling and analysing. If you believe you can satisfy your demanding requirements from the web and web based middlemen then you are likely to be disappointed.

I just purchased my house 2 months ago, so I'm not sure how well installed the door was. The house was built in 2005 so 12 years for this door and you can clearly see signs of being low quality and/or badly installed. The locks also are quite rubbish with just dead lock and a mortice.

I went to a few places today that do Solidor, for a relatively simple single door they are quoting around £1600 installed. One of these companies also do doorstop and hurst, and the chap mentioned he has a doorstop at home for 8 years with no problems. I'm not really sure about that considering the door is just a wooden frame with skin and foam inside. Not sure how I feel about a door like that, but it feels more towards the low end of the spectrum. I've no idea about hurst, they may be something good or not, but it was the first time I heard about them. The chap told me they make the same margin on all of them, so regardless what I get his cut is the same.

I'm going to ask for a formal quote from them on these 3 brands to compare.

So far I'm more inclined to use rockdoor as it is around £1100 range and seems to be on same level as solidor.

by the way, I went to 4 different stores that do solidor today to get a better understanding

PlanetX

onomatopoeia99 wrote: »

I have porches on my front and rear doors, so four "external" doors total.

Front porch door - solid hardwood "paneled" design with a small glass window at around head height. The wood in a couple of panels has split and there's a 1/4" gap running down two of them as a consequence.

Front door (inside the porch, so the actual front door) - Steel, by Hormann. Looks fabulous.
Exceptionally rigid and solid, doesn't expand, contract, warp or do anything it's not supposed to. Excellent in every respect. Very, very expensive. People who have visited have made comments like it should have a big wheel to open it like like bank vaults in flims!

Rear porch door. - uPVC, glass panel in top half, plastic in bottom half. Pretty awful, flexible. White, so it doesn't fade though.

Rear door - Composite by "valuedoors" (no idea who actually manufactured it). So far (only been in two years) no problems with it. It's white so isn't fading and is actually still white. Nowhere near as robust in feel at the steel door (way better than the uPVC one and similar to the hardwood), but at a quarter of the price you wouldn't expect that. Opens and closes smoothly, locking action is perfect - I'm sure a lot of that is down to care by the fitters, they did spend a good while adjusting it once installed to get the action perfect and it has given no problems since.

Were I buying another front door I'd go to Hormann.

I thought about Hormann but I think there is no way to get something under £2k with them

Furts

All credit for doing your homework. Ask some fundamentals about Solidor. What weight is the door, how many hinges are there, and will they cope with weight? Then for piece of mind what guarantee comes with the hinges.

Then reflect on my earlier comment. What happens if the timber core gets damp, and how is this scenario prevented?

My home has a foam filled composite door because of my concerns over these issues. But my DoorStop hinges cannot cope with the weight of my door - because it is a disability width it could be the swing and loading exceeds the hinge ability. So ponder here on your door width - I suspect your door from 2005 will also be a disability access door.

onomatopoeia99

PlanetX wrote: »

I thought about Hormann but I think there is no way to get something under £2k with them

Mine was more than a month's take home, but I figure I will never have to replace it - I may live another 30 years and I'm not intending to move from this house, so I'm tending to buy things that I hope will outlast me now!

PlanetX

Furts wrote: »

All credit for doing your homework. Ask some fundamentals about Solidor. What weight is the door, how many hinges are there, and will they cope with weight? Then for piece of mind what guarantee comes with the hinges.

Then reflect on my earlier comment. What happens if the timber core gets damp, and how is this scenario prevented?

My home has a foam filled composite door because of my concerns over these issues. But my DoorStop hinges cannot cope with the weight of my door - because it is a disability width it could be the swing and loading exceeds the hinge ability. So ponder here on your door width - I suspect your door from 2005 will also be a disability access door.

Your door was supplied as a whole kit by doorstop or did you get frame and door from different places? I'm puzzled how can they supply a door with a frame that has weak hinges?

I don't think my door is a disability width, it seems pretty much the same size as I've seen in older terrace houses, but who knows. The only clear sign is a low threshold on my door frame.

I've asked Rockdoor and Solidor about their warranty terms for warping, gap tolerance (I read reports of 5mm tolerance which in my opinion would be crap, allowing draught) cracks on letterbox/glass, direct sun light and head. I read reports both companies don't provide the warranty to the end user, but to the installer. So if the installer goes bust, it seems you may be without a warranty?

PlanetX

onomatopoeia99 wrote: »

Mine was more than a month's take home, but I figure I will never have to replace it - I may live another 30 years and I'm not intending to move from this house, so I'm tending to buy things that I hope will outlast me now!

That sounds good on the quality side, but I think for me the price would be out of the budget.

To cover my whole ground floor and first floor with Amtico flooring would cost £3k for example, then I would just put a wooden door in place for the next 10 years and forget all of this.