Seller doesn't have planning permission documents

kenzie123

Hello

Can anyone help with this query -

we are currently in the process of buying a house. Almost there but we are not sure how to respond to one of the answers from our seller's solicitor.

An extension came up on the local authority search, so our solicitor asked for the planning permissions. This is odd as having seen the property there is no extension. There were also some other documents requested regarding the electric and gas boiler.

The seller is saying they don't have documents for any of these things (this has been their answer for many queries as they are Executor on the property and this is a Probate sale). They are refusing to pay for an indemnity for lack of documents.

Should we insist they do? If they do what will this mean? If they DON'T what will this mean?

Our solicitor is asking if we would like to argue the point further - not really guiding us either way (not sure if they are supposed to but I would have thought so given how much we are paying them)

Any help here much appreciated

davidmcn

Yes, your solicitor is meant to advise you. That's what you're paying them for! Not so you end up asking weirdos on the internet what you should be doing.

When you say "an extension came up on the search" what do you mean? If there isn't in fact an extension then it's not surprising there's no paperwork, and I don't know what you'd need indemnifying against.

What "documents regarding the electric and gas boiler" do you think you need? If you want the functionality or safety of the electrics or gas checked out, you'll need to pay someone to go and do that for you. Or you could do what most buyers do and assume that if it all looked fine and seems to work then it'll probably do.

Doozergirl

I can't understand how an extension comes up on a search without there already being planning or building regs in place. If there is an extension, it must be registered. Or I guess there could have been planning permission for one that was never built.

If there isn't one, then you need to tell your solicitor that there isn't one! As above, no point buying protection for something that doesn't exist.

As for gas and electric, Any certificate produced by a vendor from some point in the past is only as good as the day it was certified. If you want peace of mind then you are always best off commissioning a proper check of both services yourselves. A survey does not cover gas and electric.

It's hard if you're a relative or executor dealing with a deceased estate. You simply won't know the answers and to some degree these properties are often sold as seen.

kenzie123

davidmcn wrote: »

Yes, your solicitor is meant to advise you. That's what you're paying them for! Not so you end up asking weirdos on the internet what you should be doing.]

I wish they could read this post. their lack of advice and consistent 'it's up to you we cannot advise on that' attitude has led me down the weirdo route.

[When you say "an extension came up on the search" what do you mean? If there isn't in fact an extension then it's not surprising there's no paperwork, and I don't know what you'd need indemnifying against.]

Thats their words - an extension has come up in the search. This is my question - why is this even being discussed if there isn't an extension? Why was an application made and if its just a case that one was applied for but never built - this is fine isn't it? Stupid question maybe but I want to check as there must be a reason this was relevant enough to be mentioned.

[What "documents regarding the electric and gas boiler" do you think you need? If you want the functionality or safety of the electrics or gas checked out, you'll need to pay someone to go and do that for you. Or you could do what most buyers do and assume that if it all looked fine and seems to work then it'll probably do.

We are FTB's - trying to avoid being 'it'll do-ers' but it is hard to know if everything is okay I have to say.

kenzie123

Doozergirl wrote: »

I can't understand how an extension comes up on a search without there already being planning or building regs in place. If there is an extension, it must be registered. Or I guess there could have been planning permission for one that was never built.

If there isn't one, then you need to tell your solicitor that there isn't one! As above, no point buying protection for something that doesn't exist.

As for gas and electric, Any certificate produced by a vendor from some point in the past is only as good as the day it was certified. If you want peace of mind then you are always best off commissioning a proper check of both services yourselves. A survey does not cover gas and electric.

It's hard if you're a relative or executor dealing with a deceased estate. You simply won't know the answers and to some degree these properties are often sold as seen.

Thank you - i think its clear now that there isn't an extension - i am guessing it was applied for and never built.

If we were to get the gas and electric looked at, and faults were found, would the seller be expected to fix things or is that on us as new buyers?

Doozergirl

kenzie123 wrote: »

Thank you - i think its clear now that there isn't an extension - i am guessing it was applied for and never built.

If we were to get the gas and electric looked at, and faults were found, would the seller be expected to fix things or is that on us as new buyers?

All part of the negotiations. It really depends on what you could have expected. If you're buying something dated, then you might reasonably expect to be replacing things. If it was built last year, notsomuch!

Regs on consumer units changed at the beginning of last year, so virtually no electrical installation is entirely up to date. You will not get a 'perfect' report but that doesn't mean it's unsafe.

If the boiler looks old then you're going to be hard pushed negotiating for a new one.

I think the key is to just knowing what you can expect and then considering how you deal with it. Many people subscribe to the fact that ignorance is bliss

AnotherJoe

kenzie123 wrote: »

If we were to get the gas and electric looked at, and faults were found, would the seller be expected to fix things or is that on us as new buyers?

Neither, it's down to a mixture of expectationsand negotiation. And emotion.

For example, the house may already be priced due to dated boiler and electricals with the expectation it will need fixing, or it may be very old and dated yet be priced the same as the recently renovated place next door,

Or If you've looked around it and the electric sockets are from the 1950s and the boiler looks like it was last serviced in 1982 that's one thing, OTOH maybe it all looks pristine and the electrics are new, yet it was a bodge job and your checks determine this.

And even then, depends on the attitude if the seller. Maybe they've already put it ata low price for a quick sale but are susceptible to lowering it more, or perhaps there are multiple relatives selling this who all want the absolute top,price so won't budge or, it's already at a decent price, it's "obvious" it needs a new boiler, then you turn round and say "our survey says the boiler is shot we want three Grand off" and the seller says Foxtrot Oscar because they are peeved at your cheek.

So, There are no rules.

ReadingTim

A probate sale is always going to be trickier, because the person who knows most about the property is dead. The executor may not know too much about the place, may not have the records, or be able to locate them. So there's always going to be more of the element of the unknown than if the vendor was alive. Depending on who the executor is, there may be less of a sense of urgency to the sale - after all, the previous owner has already moved, as it were... You probably need to get your head around this before going any further.

With regard to anything else, it's down to negotiation: they won't pay for an indemnity. So, either you do, or threaten to pull out if they don't. They may reconsider, negotiate, or stand firm, calling your bluff. You then have to either stick to your promise/threat and walk away, or concede and pay for it. And so on. Your solicitor will (if asked) outline the risks (if any) associated with not taking one out in the first place, so be sure to check with them. Generally speaking, it a form of insurance against the council ordering you to knock down the offending structure (or part of) that should have required it. However, after a certain length of time, this power falls away and the structure stays - which is probably the reason for the refusal. Electrical and gas standards are discussed above, and aren't worth falling out over, as standards change relatively regularly, and just because something's old doesn't mean it's automatically dangerous - any more than an E-type Jag is dangerous and worthless because it doesn't have airbags.

bxboards

Ideminity policys are very cheap, and need not be deal breaker, cost from about 15 to 125 quid for most issues, so it's probably going to cost more in solicitor time arguing about it.

societys_child

Ideminity policys are very cheap

Indemnity policies are, but you need something to insure against. Not sure what that would be in this case.
:huh:

eddddy

kenzie123 wrote: »

Thank you - i think its clear now that there isn't an extension - i am guessing it was applied for and never built.

If you want to investigate this further...

Most local planning authorities allow you to search for past planning consents online.

You can find out exactly what the consent was for, to determine whether or not it was built.

Even if it was never built, you might be interested to know what it was, in case you decide to build something similar at some point in the future.

(The consent only lasts 3 years so it may have lapsed, but if it was granted in the past, there's a good chance it will be granted again in the future - but it's not guaranteed.)