Pay my ex or seeing my kids

Angua2

It occurs to me that both the children and you, the father, have fundamental Human Rights at issue here, along with the financial, emotional, social and psychological aspects.

Various conventions seem to be involved:
Hague II and Human Rights (Britain signed up to both)

European law:
http://ec.europa.eu/justice_home/fsj/civil/parents/fsj_civil_recognition_parents_en.htm

Can we presume that your Rights and Responsibilities as one of the legal parents are being respected and protected?

Allegedly, the UK courts have a Children First policy and subscribe to the idea that children benefit from contact with both parents.

Have you spoken to your legal representative / solicitor about whatever court order is currently in place? Is it possible to apply for a "variation" on that order?

You might try a search with key words: legal remedy father unable to afford contact visits with children living abroad....

Such a hard situation. Best of luck.

Angua2

A couple of established sites that might be of interest:

Families Need Fathers http://www.fnf.org.uk/

Divorce On-Line: http://www.divorce-online.co.uk/

Shared Parenting Information Group UK: http://www.spig.clara.net/


New site: http://www.wikivorce.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=264&func=select&id=7

seven-day-weekend

I really don't see how it can be for the benefit of the children if you can't see them. Presumably it was your ex-wife's choice to move to France? No-one forced her, did they?

In that case I think the £1000 costs per month you have should be deducted from any other maintenance you may pay so that your boys can continue to have a relationship with their father. Anything else would be grossly unfair to all of you, imho.

However, I have no experience of this and don't know what the courts will rule.

Good luck, please let us know the outcome.

roligan

Hi all,

thank you very much for all your advice. It is quite helpful.

Roligan

Sallys_Savings

Sorry if this seems soo obvious, but have you talked to your ex wife about this?

roligan

Hi Sallys Savings,

we haven't spoken since mid last year. All communication is by email.

She says she can't find work (been in France for 3 months) so she can't feed the boys. One of her main arguments in court when she made an application for leave was that companies was lined up in France to hire her so financially she could take better care of the boys. She has a very good education, experience and speaks 4 languages. She has not taken a temp position while she is looking for a permanent job.

She just says I have to pay her and then I'll have to resolve how to pay to see my boys. I should add that I'm self-employed and she is of the opinion that I make more money than I say even though I have given comprehensive and full disclosure of my financials that clearly shows that I have had to borrow heavily to pay my solicitors (so far nearly £200,000), her pending maintenance (£1,950 per month) and travel/accomodation to see the boys.

Roligan

Angua2

roligan wrote: »

Hi Sallys Savings,

we haven't spoken since mid last year. All communication is by email.

She says she can't find work (been in France for 3 months) so she can't feed the boys. One of her main arguments in court when she made an application for leave was that companies was lined up in France to hire her so financially she could take better care of the boys. She has a very good education, experience and speaks 4 languages. She has not taken a temp position while she is looking for a permanent job.

She just says I have to pay her and then I'll have to resolve how to pay to see my boys. I should add that I'm self-employed and she is of the opinion that I make more money than I say even though I have given comprehensive and full disclosure of my financials that clearly shows that I have had to borrow heavily to pay my solicitors (so far nearly £200,000), her pending maintenance (£1,950 per month) and travel/accomodation to see the boys.

Roligan

Roligan -

First things first, ok? You'll want to ensure that the boys are being fed - no matter what.

Secondly, that the order allowing her to move to France - and remove the children from the UK - seems to have been based on her job prospects AND that those job prospects have not come through seems to indicate that a variance in the court order could have some merit on the basis that the conditions underlying the order have not been met. However, 3 months is not a long period of time for securing full-time permanent employment... EXCEPT it's too long to go without food OR without seeing your boys OR for debt to pile up.

Communication seems to be an issue in your circumstances, and that makes it all the harder, specially if you find it difficult (and likely with good reason) to have confidence in her assertions.

Battle on, keeping the boys' welfare as the heart and soul of your journey.

Jet

Roligan,

I really do feel for you. Some ex's just seem to think that their ex partner has a bottomless pit of money and not only should they be inconvenienced but should also have to find additional money because they chose to change THEIR OWN lifestyle - none of which you would have had much say in.

And no, I'm not a bitter father, I'm a single parent myself who gets no maintenance - never been greedy, only wanted what is fair.

It sounds like your ex thinks money will make your children happy - a new job in a new country being more important than regular contact with their Dad.

Makes me mad. :mad:

Voyager2002

So sorry to hear of your situation.

I have had some relevant experience, since I went through an international divorce and then had to deal with child abduction (now all resolved, thankfully). The first lesson from my experiences: courts make decisions according to the law, not according to what seems right or fair. So make sure that you have the best possible legal advice, and base your actions on what lawyers say, not on what you (or anyone else) think the law should be. And check out any advice that anyone gives you, including me.

First immediate thought: your legal costs seem excessive. My divorce was handled by three firms of lawyers in three countries. The UK firm had acted for Princess Diana; one of the lawyers overseas had been involved in drawing up the constitution of his country. Two firms of private detectives were also involved. The total cost was less than 20,000 pounds. So try to get a detailed breakdown of the legal work for which you have paid, and get some advice as to whether you should apply for what lawyers call "taxation" (an expert considers whether the costs are reasonable, and if you have been overcharged order the lawyers to repay some of their fees). Be aware that you pay an additional cost for this, so get some kind of advice before applying for it.

Again, have you looked at legal aid? Legal aid is generally available for matters concerned with child welfare, no matter what your income.

Child maintenance: my understanding is that when the CSA was introduced, the courts lost the power to order you to pay for the support of your children. And of course the CSA will not act to collect money for a child who is outside the UK. So, unless the law has changed since my experiences, it is entirely up to you whether you pay child support. If you do decide to make such payments, you might like to take account of the strength of the pound in relation to the euro and the generally low cost of living in provincial France in order to set a reasonable figure. I must say, the figure of 1,950 per month (presumably net of tax or deductions) sounds exceptionally generous to me.

Oh: and it is normal practice for parents to divide the costs of contact visit equally between them. Something unusual must have happened at your hearing: or perhaps you have a duff lawyer?

roligan

Hi Voyager2002,

well it shows that we used the same UK firm in this case Payne Hicks Beach. I was represented by Ian Airey, Head of the Family Department.

The reason for the very high cost was due to my wife's continuing effort to prevent me from seeing my children and her wish that all contact between me and her was done thru solicitors. This resulted in several court appearances. Furthermore I opposed her application for leave. For a year there was almost daily correspondence and sometimes several letters in one day between my solicitors and her solicitors and the final outcome was decided at a 3 day hearing in the High Court. I was very involved which no doubt increased the cost. I have no reason to believe that I have been overcharged and was in fact very pleased with Payne Hicks Beach despite the outcome.

I have not been able to receive legal aid until now since at the outset of our divorce we had a fair amount of net assets. I am now in significant debt and I will investigate if I can receive legal aid.

The High Court was very much from the outset of the hearing negative towards me. As an example we wanted to cross examine my ex for 4 hours but the judge said that he would not allow more than 1 1/2 hour. This was on the first day and basically set the tone. The court's decision to order that I pay for all the cost of contact was based on unrealistic earnings projections. This will of course be reviewed during the Final Hearing for Financial Matters.

The order for me to pay interim maintenance of £1,950 was made on a needs basis. I had to borrow money to pay her since I was adamant about supporting my boys. My ex is asking for £25,000 in maintenance and school fees of £11,000.

The court will not award her much if anything based on my income and it is going to be an interesting final hearing in November.

I am well aware that the CSA will not act to collect for children outside the UK when the mother is not a UK citizen. Furthermore my ex will not have the resources to pursue me in the courts in the UK.