Appeal can't be looked at until driver is named

CountryKerry

safarmuk wrote: »

What other company have P4 passed your details onto and for what reason? I am presuming they have your details as you appealed to them as the RK basis the NTD that was left on your car?

Additionally I suspect secret recordings are not admissible in court ...

P4 have passed my details onto a debt collection company - or at least they say they have. I have not received an NtK or POPLA code at this point. They have my details as RK from my admission in the appeal of the NTD, yes. I also think they have my details from the DVLA as they claim to have begun requesting them on the 24/8/17.

Lastly, I was under the impression I can record calls for my own personal use. I understand fully I cannot use these calls in court, but at least I know what was clearly said. Additionally, I did actually say I was recorded the call to the first person I spoke to. The response was "so are we". :rotfl:

safarmuk

Additionally, I did actually say I was recorded the call to the first person I spoke to. The response was "so are we"

Then you can use it. Very good.

P4 have passed my details onto a debt collection company - or at least they say they have. I have not received an NtK or POPLA code at this point. They have my details as RK from my admission in the appeal of the NTD, yes. I also think they have my details from the DVLA as they claim to have begun requesting them on the 24/8/17.

I think first you need to start gathering all the information you will need to do whatever you end up doing. I'd start by confirming that they have accessed your DVLA data, you can do this by emailing the DVLA and asking them to provide you with information on whom has accessed your data between two dates.

The fact is they have your data because you gave it to them. As a result I don't see how you can make a DPA claim against them as a result of this. The Debt Collection Agency will be their standard company who they contract the "scary letters" phase of this charade out to.

To be honest if you have not named the driver and they have not issued a NtK and therefore are not POFA compliant then they really have little to go on to make a claim against you (however the computer that spews the claims out won't bother checking that if you end up in the queue). I would follow Coupon-Mads advice, wait until the deadline has properly passed ...

How are you getting on with the landowner?

beamerguy

CountryKerry wrote: »

Well I'm just so angry at them after that phone call. I phoned them back again - this time I recorded the call... . They have said, on record, "that a Notice to Keeper will be sent out soon (so an admission it hasn't been sent within 56 days) and that I really should feel guilty and unhappy about my life and actions as I have broken the law... by parking against the law".

I am also very much in an email war with the landowner as well now since P4 have passed my details onto another company without my consent. Is this a data protection breach?

It is interesting to note that P4 are clueless ???
Was it the tea girl again ??

Idiots to say you have broken the law ???

Are you sure you are talking to P4 and not some
imbecile from the funny farm. I guess both will apply

Do your worst

CountryKerry

safarmuk wrote: »

Then you can use it. Very good.

Can I though? I told the first person I was recording the call - it was later transferred to someone else and I never informed them... despite it being in the same call could this cause problems?

beamerguy wrote: »

Was it the tea girl again ??

Oh yes. She identified as "head of the PPC control area". She's made a few mistakes on the phone now - so I really hope they do not fire her! (Yet).

safarmuk wrote: »

The fact is they have your data because you gave it to them. As a result I don't see how you can make a DPA claim against them as a result of this. The Debt Collection Agency will be their standard company who they contract the "scary letters" phase of this charade out to..

That is very true but I made it clear in my original appeal I was only providing my data for use in the original appeal. They have given it on to a debt company - without consent.

Also, coupon-mad's post was actually last week, and all liability expired last Thursday. I have not named the driver to them so whilst I'm not responsible - I do not want to wait 9 months for a letter before action. I'm actually so pi**ed off with them, I'm going to start researching other cases and really take them to the cleaners over this.

The landowner situation is a mess. The new person has been removed from his role (fired I assume), and the new person has openly confessed "I've got more than a hundred complaints to do with parking to deal with before yours, I am truly sorry". I'm currently preparing a letter to everyone in our flats - and other estates throughout London managed by the same landowner - with the intention of forming a group. I hope you can tell I'm really REALLY pi**ed off!

Coupon-mad

CountryKerry wrote: »

Well I'm just so angry at them after that phone call. I phoned them back again - this time I recorded the call... . They have said, on record, "that a Notice to Keeper will be sent out soon (so an admission it hasn't been sent within 56 days) and that I really should feel guilty and unhappy about my life and actions as I have broken the law... by parking against the law".

I am also very much in an email war with the landowner as well now since P4 have passed my details onto another company without my consent. Is this a data protection breach?

And lastly, I am writing an even stronger worded email to the BPA.

As others have said, make sure you also copy in David Dunford at the DVLA and can you also send them the recording of the phone call (tell them that P4Parking were made aware you were recording it and what they said).

The bit in red is horrendous.

beamerguy

CountryKerry;73117571]Can I though? I told the first person I was recording the call - it was later transferred to someone else and I never informed them... despite it being in the same call could this cause problems?

You told a representative of P4 what you were doing and in return
they said they were recording as well.
Type out a script of the call offering actual proof of the
recording should it be disputed

Oh yes. She identified as "head of the PPC control area". She's made a few mistakes on the phone now - so I really hope they do not fire her! (Yet).


She sounds like an utterly stupid person who is now
causing her employer a great deal of hassle

Loadsofchildren123

Just want to understand a couple of facts:
1. your car was being driven by a visitor, not you. Other than outing the driver, can you prove that you were not driving? Eg is there evidence that you were elsewhere or that you have another car that you drive, or that you are not on the insurance for the car, or something like that?
2. Was the visitor correctly parked? ie in a visitor space, or in the tenant's space with their permission?
3. Are you the tenant of the flat, or the leasehold owner? this is relevant to what remedies you might have of your own against the landlord/freeholder.

Loadsofchildren123

On the evidence point, I think if you've told someone you are recording you can use it. It is surreptitious recordings that can't be used. Plus if they said they were recording it, ask for their recording of it (plus the previous call).


If it can't be used and they won't disclose their recording, the court will accept "contemporaneous evidence" of things like the content of phone calls. So what you do is write down what is being said, either at the same time, or immediately afterwards, in as much detail as you can. If they say something really bad, ask them to repeat it, and make a note of this too. If it is something really, really bad, I'd actually say "I'm making a note of this. Can I just read out what you just said and ask you to confirm it" and make a note of this too, and their answer. When you produce your note and say that it was made during or immediately after the call(s) then the court will give it greater weight, as contemporaneous evidence, than it would if it was a note produced weeks later, when your memory has faded. Also, the court is more likely to favour your version of the call unless the PPC produces a WS from, and in court, the person you actually spoke to, to deny your version.


Press them for a copy of the recording they have of both calls (but you'll need to say what time/date it was).

safarmuk

Then you can use it. Very good.
Originally posted by safarmuk
”Can I though? I told the first person I was recording the call - it was later transferred to someone else and I never informed them... despite it being in the same call could this cause problems?

As has been mentioned, you were clear up front with the first representative. It's arguable if it is the first representatives responsibility to tell the second representative. I would say you were clear and told them and the recording is not surreptitious ... but really only a court can decide on that, everything else is an opinion.

That is very true but I made it clear in my original appeal I was only providing my data for use in the original appeal. They have given it on to a debt company - without consent.

They claim they have ... wait till you get a letter from the Debt Collection Agency first, it will be your evidence that the data has been passed on. Again as you gave your data to them its a tricky one, but lets keep it on the table.

As others have said, make sure you also copy in David Dunford at the DVLA and can you also send them the recording of the phone call (tell them that P4Parking were made aware you were recording it and what they said).

As said before - and also by others - get in touch with the DVLA and find out if your Registered Keeper data has been accessed and as C-M says you can forward that recording with your complaint to David Dunsford.

The landowner situation is a mess. The new person has been removed from his role (fired I assume), and the new person has openly confessed "I've got more than a hundred complaints to do with parking to deal with before yours, I am truly sorry". I'm currently preparing a letter to everyone in our flats - and other estates throughout London managed by the same landowner - with the intention of forming a group. I hope you can tell I'm really REALLY pi**ed off!

On your letter why don't you suggest everyone joins a Facebook Group (e.g. "Residents of XYZ") for which you are the admin ... this will be a far more effective way for people to communicate in a timely and easy manner as opposed to letters and meetings.
Regarding the landowner, I am curious who it is, much of the freehold of estates around London and the Home Counties trace back to a vast number of Companies who share the same three Directors. Generally they all use a company called Estates and Management to collect Ground Rent - is this who collects your Ground Rent by any chance? If so then you are in the same group as many other posters on this forum (including Daniel_san),

I also note you are talking to the landowner ... who is the Management Agent and have you contacted them as well as they would be the people who contracted the PPC.

CountryKerry

By way of an update on the matter; P4 Parking have cancelled the ticket! Quite a shock to be honest.

I am rather thankful for them closing it if I'll be honest - the thought of dragging this through the courts and POPLA would be a headache! "... Further to your multiple concerns P4 Parking consider the matter closed. Your penalty charge has been waived as a gesture of goodwill".

I wonder if this has anything to do with Steve Clark from the BPA sending them an email? Or the landowner getting in contact, shocked that they're not giving people the right to appeal? Or maybe it was the recording of the call I played to the landowner, who as pretty peeved off to hear such threats on the phone.

...but... either way, it's not closed. Not closed at all. Whilst the ticket is cancelled, they have done a great job at annoying me, threatening me, and I will not give in in my pursuit of their destruction. They will pay me compensation for this, and I will fight during my spare time to have them shut down as a company.

I can't thank you all enough for your help. You have been such a valuable resource and I will continue to participate where I can in these forums. Thank you!