International SIPP for ex-pats

Newfangle

Hi i am an expat living in Switzerland with a sizeable UK pension that i'd like to move out of the UK. A couple of people have advised the International SIPP to me offshoring to Gibraltar or Isle of Mann. I do not plan to return to the UK (I am not British but have EU citizenship). I am not clear on advantages or Gibraltar or Isle of Man and wonder how Brexit would impact this decision? Has anybody done it or have a strong view? thanks!

xylophone

What kind of UK pension do you have (deferred DB/ DC etc)?

http://www.qropsspecialists.com/qrops-switzerland/ may be of interest for information only.

You may be best advised to consult an expert adviser with knowledge of Swiss/UK systems.

Newfangle

It's a company pension invested in fundns which i have control to buy and sell as i wish (ie with Aviva). Not sure what you call this type of scheme. Not final salary or defined benefit scheme. I already know the Intl SIPP is best option and have taken advice from financial advisors. The problem is they are recommending on the one hand - "offshore it to Gibraltar" and on the other hand "offshore it to Isle of Man". I am therefore looking for any non professional experience / advice on the board specifically about these locations and pros and cons.

sandsy

An 'International SIPP' is just a marketing name. SIPPs are established by UK legislation and are a type of personal pension.

SIPPs give investors more flexibility of the type of assets that can be held within the pension wrapper. When I google 'international sipp' and see things like Isle of Man, Gibralatar and Malta come up, the chances are that you will be [STRIKE]persuaded[/STRIKE]advised to hold assets within the SIPP that come with hefty commissions and hefty charges to pay for those commissions. Things like IoM bonds which pay 8% commissions invested in Maltese funds with initial charges and high ongoing fund management charges.

Quite honestly, these things are no better than scams like investing in hotel groups in the Verde islands or Costa Rican rainforests. And the assets themselves won't have UK regulatory protection.

Newfangle

And the Aviva's of the world don't charge aounrd 2% in mgmt fees?

Thrugelmir

Newfangle wrote: »

And the Aviva's of the world don't charge aounrd 2% in mgmt fees?

That would depend on the fund one invests in.

bostonerimus

Newfangle wrote: »

Hi i am an expat living in Switzerland with a sizeable UK pension that i'd like to move out of the UK. A couple of people have advised the International SIPP to me offshoring to Gibraltar or Isle of Mann. I do not plan to return to the UK (I am not British but have EU citizenship). I am not clear on advantages or Gibraltar or Isle of Man and wonder how Brexit would impact this decision? Has anybody done it or have a strong view? thanks!

What are you trying to achieve by moving your SIPP outside the UK? The bottomline is the UK is as good as most places and the UK also has tax treaties with most other countries so you will be protected from double taxation.

Malthusian

Your financial advisors should be able to tell you which is the best option out of Gibraltar or the Isle of Man after discussing your plans and circumstances. What are you paying them for if you have to leave that decision to random strangers down the pub?

SIPPs give investors more flexibility of the type of assets that can be held within the pension wrapper. When I google 'international sipp' and see things like Isle of Man, Gibralatar and Malta come up, the chances are that you will be persuadedadvised to hold assets within the SIPP that come with hefty commissions and hefty charges to pay for those commissions. Things like IoM bonds which pay 8% commissions invested in Maltese funds with initial charges and high ongoing fund management charges.

If you are using a reputable adviser then it is perfectly possible to use a QROPS to invest in the same kind of low-cost funds that you would invest in via an onshore SIPP.

A lot of "advisers" in the QROPS arena are however not reputable.

The fact that the OP feels he needs to come over here to ask whether his QROPS should be in Gibraltar or the Isle of Man rather than ask his adviser does not inspire confidence. Nor does having apparently been persuaded that "the International SIPP is the best option" when he is none the wiser as to which jurisdiction the QROPS should be in - if you don't know what jurisdiction it should be in and why then how can you know that a QROPS is the best option in the first place?

I would also like to know why the OP typed "no QROPS". Regardless of what you call it, an HMRC-recognised pension held in Gibraltar or the Isle of Man is a QROPS. (If it was not a QROPS the transfer would be subject to a 55% unauthorised payment charge.)

atush

bostonerimus wrote: »

What are you trying to achieve by moving your SIPP outside the UK? The bottomline is the UK is as good as most places and the UK also has tax treaties with most other countries so you will be protected from double taxation.

This.

But IOM pensions do have a 30% tax free LS rather than 25%.

You dont have to move your pension.

Malthusian

atush wrote: »

This.

But IOM pensions do have a 30% tax free LS rather than 25%.

Only if the OP has been resident outside the UK for five full tax years. In addition, what may be tax free in the UK may not be tax free in Switzerland (though I know nothing about the Swiss tax system).

atush

Obvs, it i up to the OP to investigate his local tax situation. And as they said they would stay out of the UK, the 5 years would pass soon if not already.

My answer was to the OPs question about advantages. So that is one.