CCJ from BE Legal/Excel relating to incident in 2012

[Deleted User]

Ok so include something like this:

HMCTS court fees @ £255 (application)
Earnings loss @ £95 (attending hearing)
Travel @ £0.45 per mile (hearing)
Parking @ £ TBC (hearing)

Documents:
Drafting application & statements
XX hours @ £19 p.h.
Research case law and CPR
XX hours @ £19 p.h.
Liaising with court
XX hours @ £19 p.h.

TobyZ

Great, thanks Umkomaas and Johnrsh, I will send something off tomorrow. Should I also send the statement I've drafted up above to the court, and does that need to go to the claimant's solicitors also? It is a new statement I've written this week, although I did make similar arguments in the original application this goes into more depth on many points.

Also, are there any other documents I need to submit ahead of the deadline for the hearing, or are the documents I submitted with the application sufficient?

Another question just occurred to me - I've not heard anything from Excel or BW Legal about this at all (by email or post, though I have emailed them to advise of my application and they now have my correct postal address). Is this normal? Does it mean anything?

TobyZ

Summary of costs now submitted - any thoughts on the other queries I had above? Should I have heard anything from BW Legal by now? And do I need to submit the other document I've prepared as a defence statement regarding the set aside application?

Sorry for all the questions. Getting a bit nervous as court date approaches - totally alien territory for me.

nosferatu1001

General rule is you cannot ambush, so everything has to be sent in advance, and to both the court AND the claimant.

TobyZ

Thanks nosferatu, will send the documents now then.

TobyZ

Does that mean BW Legal/Excel won't be able to use any documents about the case against me if I don't get them today? They have sent nothing so far.

nosferatu1001

If the deadline is today, give it one more day, then

1) Call the court, see if THEY have been served a copy of the claimants bundle. simple yes or no
2) Either way, state that YOU do not have a copy of the claimants bundle, and you are asking the coutr to disallow their bundle when it comes to the hearing. Late service of the bundle only X days before the hearing (wihtin 14 is usual) prejudices your ability to competently argue your defence, as there is no disclosure prior to this point. There is no excuse for a professional (hah!) serial litigant to be unable to meet these most important timescales. You ask that a note is put on the file fo rht ejudges attention, They may want you to write instead / as well

A court CAN still decide to hear a claimants bundle, but you should obejct to that as above - that they have no excuse and late service of their bundle is seriously bad for you, an unrepresented first timer.

TobyZ

Hi all,

Had my day in court today on the CCJ set-aside. Quick write-up:

One lady representing BW Legal arrived about half hour before case was due to be heard. She was very friendly and produced a set aside by consent form which she invited me to sign. I queried whether I would receive costs, which I had asked for, and reminded her I had also moved to have the claim dismissed. She said that was fine and that it would have no effect on the set aside by consent - essentially they were going to let me get the CCJ taken off whatever else I wanted to do. Very friendly and professional, nice lady (didn't catch her name).

We went in a little early, afraid I didn't catch the name of the judge presiding. He was very sharp, no-nonsense sort. BW Legal rep gave her the set aside by consent order paper, and he turned to me and asked whether that was all settled then? I advised no because I wanted to claim costs, and to get claim dismissed.

We then had a back and forth on the case for claiming costs, which seemed to go on forever but probably wasn't very long (I was pretty nervous!) The crux of it, to the judge, was whether the passing of 5 years constituted "reasonable grounds" for claimant to think I had possibly moved. He said my submissions were useful, but were websites and legal journal stuff which had no standing, and he mentioned several times that it was a pity that no case law was provided for him to use (possibly something for the authorities here to add to stickies/guidelines?)

After questioning me and the BW Legal lady - who admitted she had no evidence that BW Legal had done anything to find me - he entered into a kind of philosophical musing about how long it would take "reasonable cause to arise". "Obviously, if someone lives to 100, and a claimant uses the address on his birth certificate, there is reasonable cause to think they may have moved....but equally we would not have reasonable cause to check an address is correct on Tuesday if it was correct on Monday." He described 5 years as a "grey area" where "courts may differ in interpretation". This line of reasoning left me rather nervous, as it wasn't at all clear where he would come down. I pointed out at this point that the majority of those in my social circle have moved in the course of the last 5 years, many more than once. The BW Legal lady objected that the statute of limitations allowed 6 years therefore something something - judge didn't think much of that.

I'm not sure if this had much effect, but he came down in my favour, saying "common sense interpretation" had to be used as no legal guidance was available and "in the real world in which we live" it was reasonable to suspect that people might move after 5 years have elapsed. So he awarded costs! Court fee, work losses (£90) and travel. He refused the costs of preparing case as that required proving claimant had "acted unreasonably", he said that was a much higher standard of proof and hadn't been met.

I did ask him, at the start, and then at the end, about dismissing the claim. I cited the numerous similar or identical claims brought by Excel and BW Legal that had been dismissed, or dropped before reaching court (I counted 16 in total since May). He didn't have much time for this, saying there are hundreds of these claims and many of them succeed, so the case would have to be looked at on its merits.

So - claimant now given 14 days to present evidence to me, then I get 14 days after that to respond with a detailed defence. Then I assume court case some time thereafter - going to be running pretty close to statute of limitations though as parking incident was early March 2012.

Am happy with the result - bit disappointed not to get the case dismissed totally, but them's the breaks, and most important thing is the CCJ gets expunged so my credit rating should return to normal. Can anyone advise on how to get my credit ratings updated?

Just want to say a massive THANK YOU to all those who have helped on here so far - in particular Johnersh, loadsofchildren, coupon_mad, nosferatu, lamilad and umkomaas. I was totally poleaxed when I got this and didn't know where to start - thanks to you I get this thing off my record and the parking company foots the bill. You've really made the difference in my case, and you are absolute heroes.

I fully intend to press on with this as with your help I'm now confident I can win again - assuming it even comes to another day in court! (BW Legal seem to have dropped a lot of cases at last minute, including one uncannily similar to mine that was dropped in June).

System

Brilliant... and a pint for that judge (based on a "common sense interpretation")

Loadsofchildren123

Great to hear this. Of course it is common sense. Well done on getting costs.
Of course excel could have agreed to the set aside much earlier, without the need for a hearing.
Into your defence now.
Limitation applies to date of claim, not determination. So it isn’t an issue.