Landlord demands council tax bills after 3 years

CL1983

Hi everybody, I have problems with understanding this council tax issue and I hope you can explain my options.
1. I moved in this property (top floor) in 2010 and paid council tax by cash/cheque to the previous landlord every other month as I share the bathroom floor with the middle floor.
2. Previous landlord told me to stop paying council tax to him and the property was sold to a new landlord in 2014. No one mentioned anything about me paying council tax.
3. I have been staying in the property since then without a written contract.
4. My assumption for the council tax dropped was that the rent price has covered this council tax bill because of its bad/mouldy condition and it never got prepared despite having workmen and roofer looked at the condition; and the fact that I share the bathroom with middle floor flat which suggested the landlord’s responsibility for the council tax as the government guideline indicates about the fact that I have been living in the property as a 'house in multiple occupation'. For example, I have no private bathroom, no toilet and no washing machine in my flat.
5. Then suddenly now 2017 the agent sent me a council tax bill to pay half the amount with the middle floor and they are looking for the reimbursement for previous years as well.
6. So my question is: If I was responsible to pay the council tax, why the agent and the new/current landlord did not make it clear to me when they took over from the old landlord?
7. The fact that the current landlord has been paying the council tax since 2014. It seems to me that he knew it is his liability to do so. Otherwise, he would have demanded the council tax payment from me when he bought the house.
8. I understand all properties require council tax being paid. I do not understand how I am required to pay council tax now after all these years. It does not seem right to anyone and now the agent said the landlord will take me to court if I refuse to pay these council tax bills.
9. I would have paid the council tax bills too if they made it clear to me from the beginning. The fact that I have been stayed in this property for extra 3 years because I thought I can save some money from council tax bill. I could have moved somewhere else if I knew I had to pay this council bill. So they have mislead me...

What do you think? Thanks.

bobbymotors

If the house is in bad condition the you should have moved or complained.

Why would you 'presume' that the new landlord was paying it when the old landlord didn't? What made you think that?

And its got nothing to do with who owes the council tax: its YOU that owes it I'm afraid, unless the property is an HMO.

They didnt mislead you: you misled yourself.

CL1983

bobbymotors wrote: »

If the house is in bad condition the you should have moved or complained.

Why would you 'presume' that the new landlord was paying it when the old landlord didn't? What made you think that?

And its got nothing to do with who owes the council tax: its YOU that owes it I'm afraid, unless the property is an HMO.

They didnt mislead you: you misled yourself.

Yes I kept complaining and they sent workmen and roofer to have a look but nothing is done.

The condition of the house when I first moved in wasn't that bad and the previous landlord demanded the council tax payment every other month.
Whereas the current landlord never mentioned anything about the council tax bill for 3 years and now suddenly expected me to pay these bills & reimbursement for 3 years!

I didn't move because i thought I could save money by not having to be responsible for the council tax anymore due to the bad condition with mushroom on the shared bath room & toilet walls. Don't you think they should have told me to pay the council tax bill from the moment the council asked them to pay the first year?

molerat

What did your old contract state about council tax ?

CL1983

molerat wrote: »

What did your old contract state about council tax ?

The old contract in 2014 states I am liable to pay council tax and the old landlord collected the council tax payment every other month. He told me to stop paying the council tax when he sold the house. I wasn't given a contract when the new landlord took over in 2014 and he did not demand any council tax payment from me since then. Nobody mentioned anything about the council tax after all these years.

G_M

1) Your original contract stated that you were liable for council tax. You paid it.

2) the landlord changed, but your contract did not change. The original contract was still in force - simply a new landlord to pay.

3) your old landlord probably have told you to stop paying him council tax (and presumably rent) because he was selling the property. He was no longer your landlord.

4) it is not the responsibility of a landlord to demand (or request) rent and/or council tax each month - it is the responsibility of a tenant to pay what the contract specifies is owed (see 1) & 2) above)

5) debts for money owed (eg in this case for council tax) can be claimed up to 6 years later

es5595

A HMO is defined as 'If you have any type of living accommodation, including a self-contained flat, and there is a sharing of a toilet, washing facilities or cooking facilities by three or more unrelated people in two or more separate households, then potentially the property will be an HMO in this situation'

So the first question is do you live in a HMO?
If so, "If the dwelling is classed as HMO, the owner rather than the occupiers will be liable for payment of Council Tax."

Therefore if you thought the council tax was included in your rent (your rent has stayed the same, but the discount they've applied for the poor condition was cancelled out by the council tax being included) then I suggest you fight your corner.

If you are in a HMO then the first step would be to inform the council and let them know the landlords details.

However, if you're not in a HMO then you'll become liable for the council tax, regardless of what might have happened before.

CL1983

es5595 wrote: »

A HMO is defined as 'If you have any type of living accommodation, including a self-contained flat, and there is a sharing of a toilet, washing facilities or cooking facilities by three or more unrelated people in two or more separate households, then potentially the property will be an HMO in this situation'

So the first question is do you live in a HMO?
If so, "If the dwelling is classed as HMO, the owner rather than the occupiers will be liable for payment of Council Tax."

Therefore if you thought the council tax was included in your rent (your rent has stayed the same, but the discount they've applied for the poor condition was cancelled out by the council tax being included) then I suggest you fight your corner.

If you are in a HMO then the first step would be to inform the council and let them know the landlords details.

However, if you're not in a HMO then you'll become liable for the council tax, regardless of what might have happened before.

I think I have been living in a self contained flat (top floor) - I have a kitchen, a living room & small bedroom. There is no washing machine. I have to share the bathroom and toilet with the middle floor flat downstairs. we (the middle flat & top flat (me)) never received any council tax bills from the council. Does it indicate it's a HMO therefore we don't receive separate council tax bills? The ground floor flat and the basement flat told me they do have council tax bills with their names on. The current year council tax bill £1196.21 is under the landlord's name for middle floor and top floor - and I expect to pay half of it or they will chuck me out and take me to court.

Therefore if you thought the council tax was included in your rent (your rent has stayed the same, but the discount they've applied for the poor condition was cancelled out by the council tax being included) then I suggest you fight your corner.

Yes it is what i thought because for 3 years they did not mention anything about the council tax. It would have been nice to inform me about this council tax bill when they took over or at least after they paid the council the first year. Why kept quiet for 3 years and now demand it? The problem is they are using the original contract to tell me it's my liability to pay the council tax. But i have never had to deal with the council when i first moved in 2010 as the old landlord said i just needed to give money to him and i have never seen a bill.

anselld

es5595 wrote: »

A HMO is defined as 'If you have any type of living accommodation, including a self-contained flat, and there is a sharing of a toilet, washing facilities or cooking facilities by three or more unrelated people in two or more separate households, then potentially the property will be an HMO in this situation'

So the first question is do you live in a HMO?
If so, "If the dwelling is classed as HMO, the owner rather than the occupiers will be liable for payment of Council Tax."

Therefore if you thought the council tax was included in your rent (your rent has stayed the same, but the discount they've applied for the poor condition was cancelled out by the council tax being included) then I suggest you fight your corner.

If you are in a HMO then the first step would be to inform the council and let them know the landlords details.

However, if you're not in a HMO then you'll become liable for the council tax, regardless of what might have happened before.

The fact that the L is liable to the Council and has presumably already payed the bill does not stop the T being liable to the L under the contract.

OP has already confirmed that the Contract makes them liable for their share of Council Tax so the L can legitimately claim this from the T regardless of HMO status.

saajan_12

The repairs / property condition are a separate issue and should be dealt with through the Shelter process. You can’t assume a discount unless this was directly stated to you which you say it was not. Besides, what would even suggest that the amount of the council tax was a commensurate offset for the condition? The LL may not have let to you for so long if you weren’t going to pay the full rent, so you arguably want to mislead them by not paying up.

The HMO status may make the LL liable for council tax as far as the Council is concerned, but the tenancy agreement makes the tenant contractually liable to compensate the LL for this. IF the agreement has not been varied, the rent levels and council tax liability remain, unaffected by the change in LL. The LL doesn’t have to request or chase payments, it was and remains your responsibility to pay.

CIS

The HMO definition used for Council Tax purposes is different to those used for licensing and registration purposes.

The Liability for Owners Regulations 1992 make the owner responsible for the Council Tax charge on a (Council Tax) HMO as far as the council are concerned but this, as pointed out, doesn't remove any agreement you have on the property for payment to the landlord. If a valid arrangement is in place with the landlord then they have the right to pursue you for those monies, by way of the county court if necessary.

I think I have been living in a self contained flat (top floor) - I have a kitchen, a living room & small bedroom. There is no washing machine. I have to share the bathroom and toilet with the middle floor flat downstairs. we (the middle flat & top flat (me)) never received any council tax bills from the council. Does it indicate it's a HMO therefore we don't receive separate council tax bills? The ground floor flat and the basement flat told me they do have council tax bills with their names on

In you think it may be an individual property then the Valuation Office Agency need to be advised so that it can be inspected and banded, if required, by them.

If they discover it should have been banded for Council Tax purposes you will get the backdated demand notice to pay. The sooner you get it sorted the better as, if it should have it's own band, you're potentially looking at £3k + in backdated charges (less any single person discount)

Craig