owing money for a training course and want to leave

InNeed_3

ssparks2003 wrote: »

Well you signed the agreement with out thinking, you have a couple of choices:

1. Ask VERY nicely for longer to pay, but £30 a month is not a starter. they are not the bank of mum and dad. you are going to need to give them a sensible offer (i.e payment over 3 months) because there is no reason for them to accept £30 a month and will cost they money to administer.

2. Hang around to 1 year and 1 day then find a new job, thus you owe them nothing.

To be honest my thinking was absolutely fine. Now I'm nearing the end of my course, there is absolutely no career development for me here, so their investment seems pointless. Staying here for another 2 years seems like I'm wasting my life away on a job with no prospect.


If they take my whole salary to cover some of the cost, that means id need to cover all of my rent and bills etc on top of the money owe, I'l be homeless within 2 months! lol its just a real shame they lied to me.


I wasn't expecting the violins to come out for me, I was just looking for advice, as this is something I'm unable to speak with my HR Team about.

InNeed_3

catmanscoop2810 wrote: »

hi, there.

Im in the exact same predicament. just completed my second year of three year course, where they have paid out a fair few thousand for the training. I've been offered and accepted a new role simply because I've become miserable and frustrated here with my role and my development, I am now off to a bigger company who have a plan for me, room for promotions, better package, better job satisfaction. They will also pay for my final year and any subsequent training I wish to do on top of this.

my agreement says I have to stay for a minimum of 5 years so to accept being here frustrated and plodding along as an anonymous spare part for another 3 years just wasn't an option, especially for someone who has suffered with anxiety/depression due to a old job that got the better of me, and now I have a family to think about.

They seem to automatically think my new company will reimburse them but that's not how it is and I will not be asking them to either as it will not paint me in a good light if I'm asking them to pay an extra money for them to take me over when they have already outlined their offer.

I understand why companys put these agreements in place but for someone like me or yourself who have worked hard in your time there, want to better themselves with other opportunities (as they dont always come round!) and dont want to stay in a job where they have not delivered on the role as per their promise, I think is a little unfair and corners a person, certainly how I feel.

I am still waiting on my current employer to see on what they want to do regarding the costs, all I know is I do not have the thousands to just hand over, neither do I want be paying £500 a month back as I have mortgage, living costs and kids to think of so something is going to have to be arranged. I researched if there's a student loans/grants available that I can use to pay back, specific credit cards for training fees but have not be successful yet so wondered if you have got any further?

I know this thread has the potential to attract the cut-throat people who will deem "you should of thought it through" - "you have no case" - "deal with it" but im hoping there's something out there a little more positive and appreciative of a situation like ours.

Hi Sorry to hear your feeling the same as I am. I feel trapped and its not for the want to not pay it back, that isn't the issue, its just how long it will take me and not wanting to leave on bad terms.


I have thought about a few options which doesn't really make the situation any better, I guess it just depends on how badly I want to move on to a new organisation.
1 - start saving now ready to at least provide them with a lump sum, even if this doesn't cover the full cost, its a good effort shown on my behalf and then try and agree a payment plan for the remaining amount.
2 - leave on the day after pay and hope they don't take me to court - ABSOLUTE worst case scenario, but imagine they would try and take me to court if I f*ck them over like that.
3 - I could beg my Nan to lend me the money (she has leant me lots of money in the past, and I've always paid every penny back within a year or 2, but she's getting old and not sure if she would lend it to me now) I'm hoping on a wing and a prayer that she would do this but really don't want to ask her.
4 - Ask my new employer if they would cover some or all of the cost. Like yourself, this doesn't look too good and the level I would be going in at, is unlikely they would agree to do anyway.
5 - I know in some circumstances where my organisation has written off debt in this situation. I do have a very good relationship with my HR team (seeing as I work within the HR team) so this could happen (if I'm lucky) I just think they're going to be shocked and p*ssed off that I'm leaving, as I am a valued member of the team and receive yearly bonus' for good performance, I have given them no reason ever, to think I'm leaving, so I'm not too sure if they would write some or all of it off for me.
6 - I leave 1 day after the 12 months of me passing my course, which takes the amount owed down to 50% which is much more achievable for me. It just means I have to stay with them another 15 months to date

skintandfat

A couple of points


You have agreed to pay monies if you leave


You have not implicitly agreed to have your wages deducted- to have your wages deducted you need to agree to each and every instance- they cannot rely on something you signed ages ago.


If you decide to leave you could include in your resignation letter a withdrawal of any implied consent they may have believed.


They may be on a stick wicket as they will be benefiting (in increased productivity) from your training. They may also benefit from training grants from government or tax allowances for same - this may mean that their actual losses are vastly lower than the actual cost of the training.

Helvetica_Van_Buren

This question often comes up on this forum and I always know what the content of what the question will be based on the title. Everyone who posts this question always has a good reason for leaving after they've received the training - often because of some perceived injustice they've received from their employer.

You had an agreement. Pay back what you owe. Discuss with your employer a repayment schedule if you can't pay it all off in one go. Don't necessarily think your employer will accept whatever you offer.

Undervalued

skintandfat wrote: »

A couple of points


You have agreed to pay monies if you leave


You have not implicitly agreed to have your wages deducted- to have your wages deducted you need to agree to each and every instance- they cannot rely on something you signed ages ago.


If you decide to leave you could include in your resignation letter a withdrawal of any implied consent they may have believed.


They may be on a stick wicket as they will be benefiting (in increased productivity) from your training. They may also benefit from training grants from government or tax allowances for same - this may mean that their actual losses are vastly lower than the actual cost of the training.

That is not correct in respect of your final pay when leaving. Plus, any properly drafted training fees agreement will normally clearly state that the money can be deducted from final pay and any shortfall is due immediately.

In any case it is a moot point if they just go ahead and do it anyway!

dawyldthing

You say staying for 2 years would be a waste of time but it would show dedication that you stick to a job so you're not jumping ship all the time, they might put you into different areas to train you up, plus after 2 years you'd be free regardless. I know if it was me Id stick it out

catmanscoop2810

skintandfat wrote: »

They may also benefit from training grants from government or tax allowances for same - this may mean that their actual losses are vastly lower than the actual cost of the training.

This is exactly what I've been thinking, I know for a fact they have received some sort of grant/discount for the times I have attended my course, if the research I've done on this is correct then it's £50 PER attendance, course year is approx 37 weeks, x 2 years = 74

74 x £50 = £3700!

I'm also holding onto the fact that there not having to pay for my next year coming up, but that may be me hanging onto every inch of hope lol.

Question is, do I have the right to argue and claim proof they have received a grant/funding for my attendance?

catmanscoop2810

dawyldthing wrote: »

You say staying for 2 years would be a waste of time but it would show dedication that you stick to a job so you're not jumping ship all the time, they might put you into different areas to train you up, plus after 2 years you'd be free regardless. I know if it was me Id stick it out

key point there "if it was me"

no disrespect to you and I totally respect your post/opinion but I have ambitions, goals, a family to look after. Where I am now cannot train me up in any different area, nor will a promotion be anytime soon. They even told me they cannot guarantee workload would pick up as they don't like to bring too much on. Thats the mentality of a smaller firm, i get that, but I want more and I've been offered more, I could regret not making the move

Undervalued

catmanscoop2810 wrote: »

This is exactly what I've been thinking, I know for a fact they have received some sort of grant/discount for the times I have attended my course, if the research I've done on this is correct then it's £50 PER attendance, course year is approx 37 weeks, x 2 years = 74

74 x £50 = £3700!

I'm also holding onto the fact that there not having to pay for my next year coming up, but that may be me hanging onto every inch of hope lol.

Question is, do I have the right to argue and claim proof they have received a grant/funding for my attendance?

Well obviously you can argue both about whether you owe them anything and, if you do, exactly how much. Ultimately though if you can't agree, either you will have to take them to court, if they have already deducted the money, or they will have to sue you if they think there is money still owing.

To repeat, a properly drafted training fees clause will be enforceable providing the amount is reasonable and proportionate.

Although many employer's will, they do not have to offer you "easy payment terms". Ultimately if it goes to court and you lose the judge will decide what you can afford per month and that will be based on no luxury expenditure at all, just the bare essentials, so I would strongly suggest you don't let it get to that point.