Complicated house/intestacy issue

GobbledyGook

I have no idea where we go with this.

My great-aunt died without a will. Well, she had a will, but it's not valid for about 6 reasons (despite the fact she paid someone to do it for her).

Anyway, she has 5 children. 1 of the children was supposed to inherit the house because she bought it for her mother in the 80's when her father died.

Now all of the siblings are absolutely in agreement that the house should go to the sister who bought it. But we've no idea how we can make it happen. They seen a lawyer who said they can do a simple deed of variation, but I'm massively concerned because one of the siblings is on benefits for health reasons. I think while she absolutely wants her sister to get what they all think is rightfully hers she's not (I don't think) being advised well in what she can do.

If it's relevant the legal advice they've got is from the same place that messed up my aunt's will so I would double check the day!

Then two of them have said that if they can't just sign it away then they'll just sell the sister the house at a low cost (and I think her siblings will then pay her back). However, am I right in thinking that if they go through the process and get executors/administrators appointed those people can't just sell a 100k house for 20k? It will still cause issues for the sibling who is on benefits surely? Otherwise everyone would just do that?

Any advice would be gratefully appreciated. I'm encouraging them to get proper advice and the cousin with the issue is seeing someone at CAB in a few weeks, but there's a delay in waiting for an appointment.

Such a mess.

Yorkshireman99

GobbledyGook wrote: »

I have no idea where we go with this.

My great-aunt died without a will. Well, she had a will, but it's not valid for about 6 reasons (despite the fact she paid someone to do it for her).

Anyway, she has 5 children. 1 of the children was supposed to inherit the house because she bought it for her mother in the 80's when her father died.

Now all of the siblings are absolutely in agreement that the house should go to the sister who bought it. But we've no idea how we can make it happen. They seen a lawyer who said they can do a simple deed of variation, but I'm massively concerned because one of the siblings is on benefits for health reasons. I think while she absolutely wants her sister to get what they all think is rightfully hers she's not (I don't think) being advised well in what she can do.

If it's relevant the legal advice they've got is from the same place that messed up my aunt's will so I would double check the day!

Then two of them have said that if they can't just sign it away then they'll just sell the sister the house at a low cost (and I think her siblings will then pay her back). However, am I right in thinking that if they go through the process and get executors/administrators appointed those people can't just sell a 100k house for 20k? It will still cause issues for the sibling who is on benefits surely? Otherwise everyone would just do that?

Any advice would be gratefully appreciated. I'm encouraging them to get proper advice and the cousin with the issue is seeing someone at CAB in a few weeks, but there's a delay in waiting for an appointment.

Such a mess.

Assuming the five inherit equally under the intestacy rules then a deed of variation can easily be done so that the house goes to the one sister. That is quite easy. The only problem is that the sister on benefits will have to declare her 20% if it is in cash which it will be if the house is sold. There is no way around that since if she declines the share it still gets counted as far as means tested benefits are concerned. What she could do is simply stop claiming the means tested benefits until her savings drop. As long as she does not go on a spending spree this will not count as asset deprivation.

GobbledyGook

Thank you.

I was sure I was right about this. Two of the siblings are adamant that because "they know" the script with the house and because of what their mother would have wanted they can just sign it away. They just won't grasp that because of their sister's circumstances that is simply not going to be possible (I don't think so anyway).

Yorkshireman99

The reality is that someone will have to apply for letters of administration to deal with the estate. The house, and any other assets the deceased had, go into the pot and once all has been converted to cash then the DOV can be done. Whilst it can be DIYd in the circumstances it might be worth handing the DOV part over to a solicitor. In any case get professional advice before you start. A brief consultation with another solicitor would ensure everyone is satisfied that what is proposed is correct.

getmore4less

What is supposedly wrong with the will?

if signed and witnessed correctly it can be surprising what can still be valid(even if bits are not).


You could just let them get on with it(telling them to get a second opinion)

It is up to the person on benefits if they give up some or all of their share of the estate to assess which of their benefits is affected by the assets/deprivation rules.

If there are other assets to distribute there will be other options to redistribute the total.

What is 20% of this house worth, and the total estate estimate.

GobbledyGook

Getmore - the will is a disaster!

One of the witnesses dated it wrong. So their signature is dated as being signed on the 4th of the month, whereas my Aunt's signature is dated as the 6th.

The other bits are probably not big enough to make it invalid alone, but all added together it's just a farce.
My Aunt's name is wrong (Along the lines of Mary Elizabeth Surname being listed as Mary Betty Surname).
Her address is wrong - it's down as the address of her property, but she's been in a care home/sheltered complex for 5 years.
The names of two of her daughter have been muddled so instead of (false names obv) Jane MarriedName1 and Sarah MarriedName 2 the surnames have been switched around.
One of her children has been omitted - it says funds in a bank account and insurance policy have "to be split equally between my five children; Jane, Sarah, Fred and Joe."

The estate will be worth around 150k. The house is worth 100k and there will be around 50k left once the final care bill is paid.

So in the eyes of the law my cousins are entitled to a share worth around 30k each, but they were all expecting only the 50k to be split between them.

I could just leave them to get on with it, but the cousin on benefits is, imo, quite vulnerable to other people (her brother mainly) telling her that it'll be ok and that everyone "knows" that the sister was to get the house. The brother has applied for the letters and I have concerns he'll just do what he wants. I know legally he can't, but he doesn't live in the UK for more than 8 weeks a year, he isn't short of cash and he isn't likely to be on benefits for the rest of his life like his sister is.

The sister who is due the house obviously wants the house, but she also understands that her sister could be in real trouble with the DWP if she's seen to 'give away' her share so is thankfully going to take legal advice from someone hopefully more competant than the idiot she got the will done by.

It's just a mess.

Mojisola

GobbledyGook wrote: »

The estate will be worth around 150k. The house is worth 100k and there will be around 50k left once the final care bill is paid.

So in the eyes of the law my cousins are entitled to a share worth around 30k each

Three of the siblings can do a DOV and give their share of the house to the sister who originally bought it. They will still receive their £10k from the cash.

The sister who is on benefits needs to end up with approx £30k.

There is her share of the £50k - £10k.

The sister with the house could transfer her £10k share of the cash to her sister.

If she could then raise another £10k and give that to her sister, the two lots of £10k would buy the benefits sister's share of the house.

Yorkshireman99

The witness and testator's signature and dates will probably invalidate the will apoart from the other "errors". You might lodge a caveat againstthe LOA application.

maisie_cat

If one of the siblings bought the mother's house should it even form part of her estate?

getmore4less

Are the witnesses still alive?
if they are track them down and ask

the wrong dates do not prove they did not witness the testator signing.

Yorkshireman99

Both witnesses and the testator all have to be present at the same time as the signing is done. One date being different is prima facile evidence that was not the case that invalidates the will.