Small Claims - Phone Recording Evidence

Paul6543

Hello everybody.

It looks like I have to make a small claim from an employer, who I've worked for on a quite informal basis. It's a proper mid-sized firm, but I'm a sole trader. They phone me up, I turn up: no purchase orders or paperwork from the firm.

My evidence would be phone records, a few emails, possibly bank evidence of previous payments from them, but my big flourish in the court would be phone recordings in which the boss says that yes he knows he owes me £xxx, the cheque must have got lost, he'll send another on Monday, etc etc.

I read conflicting things about whether this is either adequate or even admissible evidence. What does MSE think??

Thanks for any help

[Deleted User]

I don't think you could use any recording you made in secret. Unless the other party had full knowledge they were being recorded, it wouldn't be admissible evidence in court.

Just use the other evidence you have amassed. You don't need a "big flourish", it's the Small Claims Court-not Perry Mason!

Paul6543

Thanks..

just lost a longer reply, but:

1. key bit of law seems to be 'no use of recording by 3rd party' .. surely a courtroom is a resonable exception to this.
and
2. a human overhearing the call would be ok as a witness - so why not admit a machine witness?

DoaM

Why not transcribe the recording and use that in your evidence? The judge can then (lawfully) request to hear the recording in court. (AFAIK).

Undervalued

Moneyineptitude wrote: »

I don't think you could use any recording you made in secret. Unless the other party had full knowledge they were being recorded, it wouldn't be admissible evidence in court.

Just use the other evidence you have amassed. You don't need a "big flourish", it's the Small Claims Court-not Perry Mason!

Such recordings (or at least transcripts from them) have been allowed in Employment Tribunals under some circumstances. This has been upheld on appeal.

It is not unlawful to secretly record a conversation you are party to. Secretly recording when you are not present (i.e bugging) can be a criminal offence.

It is complex but in the former instance, although not unlawful to make the recording, the other party may have a civil claim against you if you "publish" the recording in any way even by playing it to a third party.

[Deleted User]

Undervalued wrote: »

It is not unlawful to secretly record a conversation you are party to.

I never said it was illegal, I said such recordings are not admissible evidence in court.

Undervalued

Moneyineptitude wrote: »

I never said it was illegal, I said such recordings are not admissible evidence in court.

And as I have explained, they can be admissible under some circumstances in an Employment Tribunal. As this is an employment dispute, unless it is a simple non payment of wages claim, that is where it would have to be pursued.

You may be right about the admissibility in the small claims court, although I would suggest the OP checks carefully if it is important, but what I have stated about ETs is certainly correct. There is a fairly well known appeal judgement on the subject......

pinkshoes

I would transcribe the conversation then also add that you also have a recording of the conversation should it be required.

Have you already sent this person a letter before action with a 14 day deadline to pay the money?

steampowered

Contrary to what you have been told above, secret recordings are perfectly admissible as evidence in court and in Employment Tribunal.

That specific point has been litigated several times and the law is now crystal clear.

In reality, the judge is not going to sit there listening to a recording. At the very least, you will need a witness statement which specifically draws the judge's attention to the specific thing which was said that supports your case.

The point is that you need to be specific about exactly WHAT was said and WHY that supports your case - don't just dump an hour of covert recordings on the judge and leave him to work it out.

Ideally you would also want a transcript.

Paul6543

Many thanks all.

Paul6543

Bloody hell , another post lost

SO

I'll wind this thread up with the result (use of transcript) should things come to shove.