Help & advice appreciated - Big issue with installer

bigp26

Hi All,

I hope you are all having a lovely weekend!

I was hoping for a bit of help and advice from you all with regards to an installation I have had in my flat. There's a bit of a story so please bear with me whilst I explain...

1) At the back end of 2015 (November), I obtained a quote from a well known local company to install new patio doors and 3 Dimplex Quantum heaters in my flat.

2) As the Dimplex Quantum heaters require both a peak and off-peak supply, the installer advised that there needed to be a dedicated off-peak wire run from the consumer unit to the bedroom (the heaters to be installed in the living room and corridor already had an existing off-peak supply nearby).

3) Considering that this new wire needed to be run (from the consumer unit at the front door to the bedroom), I wanted to make sure that the installer did a good job at hiding any wires. I therefore requested that they add the following wording to the final invoice which we both agreed to:

"All Electrical Connections will be made to ensure heaters are operating as expected. All wiring will be hidden behind the Cavity wall. Where wires cannot be hidden behind the Cavity Wall, wires will be hidden in trunking"

4) Once these terms had been added to the invoice, I confirmed acceptance via email and paid half of the total sum (£1995).

5) The installation took place in January / February 2016 (due to Christmas and New Year delays from their part). When however they came to install the heaters, they advised that the hassle of a dedicated off-peak wire could be avoided by connecting the off-peak side of the heater to a standard 3-pin plug, and plugging that in via a 3-pin timer to a spare 3-pin (on-peak) supply I had nearby. The timer would then be set to turn the supply on at the same time as when the off-peak supply was due to go on.

6) I asked the installer a number of times whether this would be safe and whether that would be compliant to regulations (e.g. if I ever wanted to rent my place out in the future), and he seemed confident that it was and explained that he performed electricity testing services for the installer thus he knew what he was doing.

7) Fast forward a couple of weeks and I am awoken at 2am in the morning to the smell of burning. I luckily noticed that the smell as coming from where the off-peak side of the heater had been plugged into the 3-pin socket via the timer, and quickly turned the switch off. I was shocked to then see that the plug socket had melted!

8) As you can imagine, I was pretty frustrated and disappointed at the fact that this has happened. The installer had confirmed that this installation was safe, however it obviously wasn't. More importantly it had put me and my family at danger. In addition, the one of the heaters that had been installed was not flush to the wall, and therefore had a small gap on one side. Finally, the trunking that the installer had placed on the walls to hide all of the install wires had not been cut and finished properly). I therefore wrote the installer an email asking them to rectify immediately.

9) At first, they simply lied on the response and tried to make it out that I had requested that the installer fit the connections in the way they did. However, after I replied by stating the pure facts, they admitted that they should not have installed the connections in this way. They agreed to return and rectify the issue by replacing the on-peak plug socket (which had partly melted) with a 20A DP switch, which was then connected to a 16A timer, which was then connected to the heater's off-peak connection. I asked them to confirm via email that this was safe and in line with regulations, which they did.

10) The installer returned to re-do the off-peak connection work for the heater in the bedroom in March 2016. He proceeded to replace the melted 3-pin plug with the 20A DP switch, and had to make a number of holes in the plasterboard to mount and connect the 16A timer. He also cleaned up the messy trunking that I had advised of before, however could not make the heater flush to the wall as apparently it was a 2 person job.

11) After they left, I took to a number of forums asking for advice around the new setup that they had installed. The last thing I wanted was my family to be at risk of fire again. A number of very helpful and experienced electricians replied and advised that this again, was a fire waiting to happen.

12) I therefore reached out to the installer again and stated that I had had another opinion, and had advised that the install was still not safe. After them trying every trick in the book, they finally agreed to come and resolve the issue once and for all by running the dedicated off-peak supply from the consumer unit to the bedroom.

13) Along came the installers in July 2016. As they dismantled the consumer unit to run the new off peak supply, one of the installers apparently made a great discovery. Somebody had already run a dedicated wire from the consumer unit to the bedroom, thus all that needed to be done was to move that wire (in the consumer unit) from the on-peak supply to the off-peak supply. I queried whether they were sure about this (as after all of the mess-ups, was worried they didn't know what they were doing), and they confirmed with 100% confidence. They also filled the holes in the plasterboard that they had made when installing the 16A timer last time.

14) A few days later, I noticed a couple of things. The plasterboard filling that they had done had been done very poorly. I can blatantly see where the holes have been made. Secondly, I now had a 3-pin plug in the second bedroom, a 3-pin plug in the living room, and my bathroom heater which only worked during off-peak hours! The apparent dedicated wire that they had advised was running from the consumer unit to the bedroom, was obviously also running to these 3 additional points.

15) I then took to email again and made them aware that yet again, they had let me down and that things were not working as expected. There is a chain of emails where they are obviously trying to get out of it, and again try every trick in the book.

16) It got to a stage where we just weren't getting anywhere. From my point of view, the work had not been completed to a high enough standard and I had given them plenty of opportunities to resolve the situation. I had still not paid the remaining amount of £1995. The last email from them stated that they had come out to see me at their expense a number of times, that the install had been completed to the standard that was agreed when I first engaged them, that the guy I had agreed the install with in the first place had left the company, and that they would be sending me an invoice for the outstanding balance.

17) It is now August 2017, and I have heard nothing from them. No invoice or correspondence. I haven't gone about rectifying the issues just yet (I'm just living with having 3 electricity points incorrectly on an off-peak supply), as if I do so, I'm scared they'll claim that it was their work.

So, my question to you all is where do I stand? I want to get the issues resolved, but remember I still owe them nearly £2k. I've given them plenty of opportunities to come and fix the issues, however they are just being awkward and negligent.

Some key questions I'm asking myself:

- Do I need to reach out to some sort of governing body to let them know what has happened?
- Considering they aren't chasing me for payment, is it likely that they've written this mess off?
- Should I have an independent installer come and resolve the issues, along with a report of what they needed to resolve and why?
- If I get an independent installer in, do I need to let the original installer know?

Many many thanks in advance and sorry for the long post - I felt it was necessary to outline all of the background.

Hope you all have a lovely Sunday!

P.

firefox1956

If this is your entry for the longest post this week you are a WINNER.
I lost interest at 3)
Sorry.

ComicGeek

Too long a post to read in detail, but my initial thoughts:

1) What qualifications did the installer have to work on the electrical installation? Did they provide electrical certificates on completion? Sounds like it would be notifiable under Part P.

2) You need to formally write to them asking them to rectify their mistakes within a reasonable amount of time, you have to give them the chance to fix it. Put a date by which they need to do so. Forget email, write to them and keep copies.

3) You can't assume that they won't send you an invoice in the future. It might just take some time to get to you.

4) If they haven't returned and fixed the issues by the reasonable date provided, then I would recommend you then getting a reputable local electrician to inspect the works and quote for putting anything right.

5) After that. if you still haven't had a response from the installers then I would formally write to them confirming the costs to rectify their mistakes and that this would be deducted from their invoice.

6) If you do receive an invoice from them then you need to write to them formally straightaway confirming that you dispute the invoice as they haven't completed the works.

I'm not an expert on consumer issues, but frankly you'll need to write a MUCH shorter summary to get good advice.

macman

NSH's should never be connected to a 30A ring main: on the off peak side they need to be on their own dedicated circuit, and hard wired to a suitable switch as the install instructions clearly state. And following the near-fire, just changing the switch for a 20A DP one does not address the real issue, which is whether the circuit cable is adequate for the current being drawn. Any electrician who is not able to comprehend this is either unqualified, an idiot, or probably both, and you should not let him near the property again.
The storage side of the heater draws up to 3kW, depending on the size/model, so 3 of those charging on the same ring main would be drawing 37.5A, and would trip the circuit. But even one 3kW heater would draw 12.5A, so would be pushing a 13A plug to the absolute limit, hence the melted socket.
When they reconnected using a higher rated switch and timer, the install was still not compliant, as it was still running off the ring main. When they finally connected it to the 'dedicated' supply, they failed to check what was already on that circuit-which still isn't dedicated, and has now two heating devices connected to it. Still not compliant.
The issue you now face is that you have no certification for the work, and no other sparky is going to sign it off. So the only way forward now is to get someone properly qualified to redo the job properly and in compliance with the regs. And get him to do a report on the bodged installation, and use that to dispute any request for further payment beyond the cost of the heaters themselves.
Finally, I'm at a loss as to why you got a patio door installer to quote for an electrical job-unless they are a general builder with a resident sparky, then they will simply have subbed the job out to the cheapest around, who may or may not be qualified. Did you check his registration?

Le_Kirk

I can support what macman says; when we moved in here before gas was available in the village, we had 3 NSH's and they each had their own dedicated cable and fuse.

Jackmydad

Some domestic storage heaters are over 3kW.
The bigger Dimplex unit is 3.4kW for example.
Definitely not to be plugged in to a 13A socket.

Generally 13A sockets are not seen as suitable for sustained near maximum use.

As said storage heaters should each be on their own dedicated circuit. I always understood this was considered to be "best practice".