PCN - but I did pay

William_C

First of all, I am German and hence my English is not the best. Sorry for that.

I and my wife rented a car from Europcar in Cornwall and spent there a couple of days.
We used the car park Tower Road in Newquay and did pay the correct amount of money for the correct time.

I received a PCN from Parking eye, accusing me, that I spent 4:58 h in the car park and that I had only paid for three hours. From the Parking eye website I could log in to view the details "Parking Charge Details".
In those statement they claim "Paid Duration: 3 hours 0 minutes (5.75£)".
Hence they provided me now with the evidence that I paid indeed 5.75£.

On the day on which we used the park park, I took a picture of the parking tariff signage which clearly states: "Tariffs: Up to 5 hours 5.70£"

Hence I have the evidence that 5.70£ are worth 5 hours!

How can it be that they accuse me now with a PCN and that due to their PCN 5.75£ are only worth 3 (in words: three) hours although their signage says it is worth 5 hours?
If I had received such a PCN in Germany, I would have gone straight forward to the police and report a fraud

However, I am not familiar with the English law and hence I hope that you can give me some advise how to handle this. In my point of view, I should claim a compensation from parking eye for the time I already spent! I will not pay a single penny even if they take me to court!

Do you think that a small appeal might be sufficient? I am not that familiar with the English laws and rights (and the English language) that I could make a "strong appeal" against parking eye.

Not to say that the 4:58 h we spent in the car park were not the actual parking time! We had with us a small baby and looking for a parking lot, unloading and loading, leaving the car park etc. also takes time! However, the signage clearly says that only the parking time will be charged.

Europcar has sent my personal details (name address etc.) to parking eye together with the hiring contract revealing that I was the primary driver at that time.

Can you send me an advise how to handle this case?

best regards
William

The_Deep

Do you live in Germany or the U.K.?

Europcar has sent my personal details (name address etc.) to parking eye together with the hiring contract revealing that I was the primary driver at that time.

Was anyone else allowed to drive?

William_C

I live in Germany. My wife was also a potential driver according to the hire contract.

[Deleted User]

Ok, so first of all double check that the sign is the correct one for that car park (sounds silly, but I have seen it happen where there are car parks next to one another). It would be helpful to post a link to an image of the sign up here using a photo site - dropbox or equivalent.

Assuming have this right,

(i) you and Mrs C are both domiciled in Germany;
(ii) you are both consumers to a consumer contract (car not registered for work/company purposes when hired)
(iii) you have a copy of the contract (photo of sign) that shows the parking tariffs
(iv) you have written confirmation that you paid the sum as per the tariff (and possibly a card receipt?)

I would write to Parking Eye (copying in Europcar) stating:

1. That the parking charge should not have been levied as you arrived and departed within the 5 hour period that you had paid for
2. You have paid the sum of £5.75 as required by the signage for a period of up to 5 hours not the 3 hours that they now assert it was for
3. Parking Eye confirm that you have both paid and remained on site for a period less than the contractual rate which was offered by the sign and which you accepted.
4. That the claim is, for the reasons set out above, entirely without merit.
5. All correspondence should forthwith be sent to your usual residential address (in Germany).
6. In the event that they wish to pursue this matter to Court your address for service is (state your address for service in Germany) for which proceedings will be accepted if served in accordance with EU Service Regulation (Regulation (EC) No 1393/2007 and provided that the Courts in England and Wales permit such proceedings to be commenced.

It will be so expensive to pursue this matter to Court and engage German court officers to comply with the relevant service proceedings it is highly unlikely to happen.

Redx

also bear in mind that the hire company cannot tell anyone who was driving the vehicle, so they did not name the driver , they named the HIRER , (the lessee , the keeper) an important difference

there are literally millions of people who are insured for and could have been driving that day , including me (on third party insurance from a fully comprehensive policy) - so they have no idea who was driving , nor does the PPC , so keep it that way

and this is a civil matter, not a criminal matter (at the moment) so its not fraud unless reported and found to be so - so dont bother with that argument for now, concentrate on getting rid of this pcn

please upload a picture of the signage to tinypic and add the url in this thread, changing the http to hxxp (we will fix it for you)

also read the NEWBIES sticky thread and get ready to appeal it , using the blue text template but possibly adding extra wording too

DO NOT SAY OR INFER WHO WAS DRIVING , not in here , not in any appeal, not to anyone at all

sorry to hear of this dampener on your UK holiday , sorry to say its something we have to put up with daily here in the UK and its a disgrace

Edna_Basher

I'm sorry that your first-hand experience of "Rip-Off Britain" has tainted your visit to the UK.

Please note that Europcar could only provide ParkingEye with details of the hirer rather than the driver because they cannot know for certain who was actually driving at the time of the incident.

In order to be able to hold the hirer liable for the Parking Charge, ParkingEye had to comply with a piece of English Law called the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 ("POFA"). This includes the requirement to send the hirer (a) a copy of the original Parking Charge Notice sent to Europcar as a "Notice to Keeper" and (b) a copy of Europcar's hire documents. ParkingEye never send these documents which means they forfeit the right to use POFA - i.e. they can only make a claim against the driver - which is not easy if they don't know who the driver is.

As well as ParkingEye trying to scam you, beware that Europcar might also try to charge you an inflated administration charge for passing your details onto ParkingEye.

I think that attack is the best form of defence in this case.

1. Submit a formal dispute to ParkingEye

This can be done via ParkingEye's website. Choose the "I was the lessee / hirer" option from the drop-down menu.

I refer to the above-detailed Parking Charge Notice (“PCN”) dated [Date of PCN] issued to me by ParkingEye Limited (“ParkingEye”) in respect of an alleged breach of Parking Terms and Conditions at Tower Road, Newquay by the driver of the above-detailed vehicle on [Date of Incident].

I confirm that this vehicle was on lease to me at the time of the alleged parking incident I am therefore its hirer for the purpose of the corresponding definition under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“POFA”).

ParkingEye’s PCN does not comply with the strict requirements of POFA and it has therefore forfeited any right to claim unpaid parking charges from the hirer. In order to understand why, I suggest that you carefully study Paragraphs 13 and 14 of Schedule 4.

Please provide within the timescales specified under the British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice, written confirmation of ParkingEye’s cancellation of this charge. Alternatively, should ParkingEye still believe it has a valid claim, please provide me with a unique POPLA Reference Code so that I may escalate my dispute to POPLA.

Thank you for your cooperation and I look forward to receiving ParkingEye’s notification that this charge has been cancelled.

It's likely that ParkingEye will still reject this meaning that you will have to go to the next stage at POPLA (the independent "appeals" service). The good people on this Forum will help you if it gets to that stage.

2. Write to Europcar to advise them that the Parking Charge was incorrectly issued and once the Parking Charge has been cancelled, you require them to refund any administrative charges

3. Once stages 1 and 2 are complete, if you really want to fight back you can then look to make a claim against ParkingEye for their negligence.

William_C

Thank you very much for your replies! Great forum!

I uploaded a picture to dropbox of the signage. However, posting the link in this forum did not work (even exchanging http to hxxp and further modifications.)
I could send somebody the link to the picture who is allowed to post a link.

I already informed Europcar that I will appeal against Parking eye. Otherwise I would have to pay an inflated administration fee of 40 GBP (after 14 days) As evidence I already sent the confirmation of PE, that 5.75 GBP were paid and accodording to the signage this will allow for a parking time of up to 5 hours.

Edna_Basher

Just type in the full website address here but with "http" changed to "hxxp". We can then retype it with the correct "http" address to activate the link

It will have taken Europcar only a few minutes to electronically transfer the hirer's details to ParkingEye. The £40 charge will have been much higher than the actual cost of doing this.

Europcar are already under investigation following allegations that they have inflated their charges to customers for vehicle repairs. It looks like the investigation should be extended to possible overcharging of customers for inflated administration costs.

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-daily-telegraph/20170624/281509341190673

William_C

hxxps://

www.

dropbox.

com

/sh/gndaat942j1sxyt/AAAC-HPhpZs6XEBuYjuYY0Hka?dl=0

Redx

live link

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/gndaat942j1sxyt/AAAC-HPhpZs6XEBuYjuYY0Hka?dl=0&preview=signage.jpg

amazing that it clearly says up to 5 hours is £5.70 and yet they issued a pcn , UNLESS the incorrect VRM had been typed in ?

Edna_Basher

I guess the correct VRM must have been entered - otherwise the statement "Paid Duration 3hrs 0 minutes £5.75" would not be recorded against the PCN on PE's website.

WC - it will be a good idea to take a screenshot of this statement from PE's website, just in case you do decide to make a claim against ParkingEye further down the line.