Meadowhall shopping centre POPLA Appeal CPPlus

Ryandavis1959

Pinklady0805 wrote: »

Both went for mediation, it didn't end to good.
one of the girls admitted driving, and is waiting for a court date.
The other girl is waiting for court date too, as no agreement could be made between her and CP Plus. she never named the driver. she has put in a counter claim too for loss of earning.

CP Plus have issue more staff with court papers this week, unfortunately i don't see them very often to ask how there planning on responding.

There is currently six of us needing to reply to the SCS letter, we all received them on the same day, so are all working to the same deadline to respond.

Do you think the response i posted above is enough to reply to the SCS letter for now? or should i reply more robustly from the off?

another part to add is that 2 of the tickets mentioned on my SCS letter are the ones i won at POPLA
strange!

Pinklady

i don’t understand the issue with her admitting she was driving. Why try to hide it? The judges aren’t thick and if everyone is going to turn up to court saying they weren’t driving (even though these are seemingly all multiple PCN’s and in most cases the RK will be the driver) it’s not going to look good, as the judges are free to make up their own minds on the balance of probabilities.

Focus on the real issues like signage, the rights of the staff to park on shopping days etc.

Umkomaas

As I’ve just said in response to you on another thread, there is no obligation on the driver to ‘out’ him/herself. If the PPC can’t determine who the driver was, Parliament has provided them with the legal means to pursue the keeper - Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

As long as the PPC has sufficient grey matter to produce a PoFA-compliant NtK, there is absolutely no disadvantage in them pursuing the keeper. Whether it’s the driver or the keeper who is liable for the £100 charge. One hundred notes are the same whosever pocket it comes from.

Sadly (or is that gladly!), PPC-land is so full of numb nuts, that even after 5 years of the PoFA being enacted, more than half of them still don’t understand it.

Pitiful.

Ryandavis1959

Umkomaas wrote: »

As I’ve just said in response to you on another thread, there is no obligation on the driver to ‘out’ him/herself. If the PPC can’t determine who the driver was, Parliament has provided them with the legal means to pursue the keeper - Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

As long as the PPC has sufficient grey matter to produce a PoFA-compliant NtK, there is absolutely no disadvantage in them pursuing the keeper. Whether it’s the driver or the keeper who is liable for the £100 charge. One hundred notes are the same whosever pocket it comes from.

Sadly (or is that gladly!), PPC-land is so full of numb nuts, that even after 5 years of the PoFA being enacted, more than half of them still don’t understand it.

Pitiful.

Thanks for the response, but from a “real world” perspective if you WERE the driver and you ended up in court, and the judge asked if you were driving, how would you respond?

On MSE forum it looks like the default message is to tell people to be evasive on this point. In my opinion this is the wrong advice, as most people who come here were actually the driver and by potentially lying on this point you are leaving yourself open to the Judge or Sheriff seeing you as not credible.

If you weren’t the driver then obviously use the argument! But I suspect most people here also driving, and MSE is not making it clear what the potential consequences are of going down that path.

Focus on the real winning points like poor signage etc.

Umkomaas

Thanks for the response, but from a “real world” perspective if you WERE the driver and you ended up in court, and the judge asked if you were driving, how would you respond?

It’s never going to happen - I’m much too sharp for a numb nut PPC to catch me out! And for much of the year they’d need to travel to the other side of the world to try. :rotfl:

If the PPC can possibly get the NtK PoFA-compliant, there is no need for any judge to ask that question.

As I’ve said, the law was changed to tip the balance in favour of the PPCs in October 2012, the fact that even after 5 years they still can’t get it right, hardly gives them any credibility in pursuing, often, the wrong person. Why should someone they are trying to drag £100 out of give them any help whatsoever? Would you walk by the mugging of a vulnerable person? Seems that you just might.

The forum was on to this within a few weeks of the Act’s implementation, yet despite constant losses at POPLA on Keeper Liability failures over the past 5 years, the skull remains unbelievably dense, unresponsive and devoid of any idea as to what is going on, but which is evidently right in front of its nose! The lights may be on, but there’s nobody in!

Utterly embarrassing!

Parking_Eyerate

Personally, if I were the driver and I ended up in a court and a judge asked me who was driving, if I did not want to make it known that I was driving I would certainly not lie but would simply say, politely and firmly, that I have no intention of identifying the driver and I believe I am under absolutely no legal obligation to do so.

Redx

nobody on here encourages people to lie , that is a lie in itself

in a criminal case a defendant being questioned is told to say "no comment" by the legal eagle because they may incriminate themselves

now they may lie to the police and may lie in court (like chris and vicky huhne) but it is not recommended

the general rule in law is

prove your case against me, I will not do it for you

we encourage people to speak in lawyer speak or politician speak because that is an accepted practice

when good practice is used , it is up to a PPC to prove their case and the apellant has no legal obligation to help them achieve their goals

you would think that after over 5 years (62 months) these numbskulls would be aware of and understand POFA2012 such that the issue of who was driving would become irrelevant

yet even Parking Eye fail on many occasions to invoke POFA2012

as for who was driving , I know very few people who are the sole drivers of their vehicles , but I know many people who can legally drive their own vehicle , their partners vehicle , plus anyone elses vehicle under 3rd party insurance

almost every family member and friend I know has multiple drivers on their vehicles

I am the keeper of my vehicle, yet my partner probably drives it more than me , sometimes I drive to a location and she drives back, because she does not drink alcohol and I do

but I would be the person receiving the NTK

and what would happen if my partner drove and parked on my local PE retail park in a morning , then I went there in the afternoon , within 2 hours , thereby breaking their signage rule ?

who was the driver , how would the keeper know that the driver parked there when she said she was going shopping ?

its not as black and white as people think, but if a parking company is stupidly NOT relying on the law of the land after 62 months , then more fool them

beamerguy

Ryandavis1959 wrote: »

If you don’t like my advice then why don’t we debate the matter, rather than you flaming and trolling my every post?

How would you respond in court if you WERE the driver and a Judge asked you if you were the driver?

There can be no debate we must protect posters on here
against bad advice.

Trolling is the wrong word, its a reply pointing out
that your advice is wrong and as you will agree, that is
not good for the forum

If indeed it is your agenda to give wrong information on your
numerous posts, then you must expect the respected members
on this forum to tell you so, as they do

beamerguy

Parking_Eyerate wrote: »

I believe I am under absolutely no legal obligation to do so.

And that has already been said to a judge who said
no more ..... case dismissed

nosferatu1001

Ryan - obvious stooge is obvious.

I would ask the claimant to prove their case. It is their burden of proof to identify the driver, not mine, or they could stop being thick and use pofa. It’s incredibly easy to comply with pofa, yet so many PPC are too idiotic to do so. Or can’t be bothered to do so.

Pinklady0805

Hello,
Just an update on cp plus

I was issued a scs letter before claim in December for 21 parking tickets in total. 1 of which I won at POPLA.
All NTK for the tickets where sent to me within the appropriate time scale of 28-59 days, unfortunately.

This is what I replied to them with, http://i.cubeupload.com/N5dJgY.jpeg
http://i.cubeupload.com/NQEBC8.jpeg
http://i.cubeupload.com/ylkNV8.jpeg

SCS have now responded with the following,
http://i.cubeupload.com/1gheiD.jpeg
http://i.cubeupload.com/FEvCwf.jpeg
http://i.cubeupload.com/OcQHPf.jpeg
http://i.cubeupload.com/ou75WA.jpeg

As well as signs from the car park and NTK’s that I’d requested copies of.

I have also been in contact with the dvla

http://i.cubeupload.com/CDF3fO.jpeg
http://i.cubeupload.com/oHtcsI.jpeg
http://i.cubeupload.com/4kilkV.jpeg
http://i.cubeupload.com/c8NOlE.jpeg
http://i.cubeupload.com/a4WE5p.jpeg
http://i.cubeupload.com/C0F2o3.jpeg

I’m now unsure on how to respond to scs, should I use my popla appeal/evidence rebuttal notes to create a new letter of response?

Many thanks