CPA recurring payment

kirstycobie

Hello, just wondered if someone could help

I took out car insurance and paid the deposit on my debit card but set the direct debit to come out of a different account monthly.

The insurance finished, I cancelled the dd and expected nothing else to come out of account

Until Monday when I realised £141 had been taken from the original account I had paid for for the deposit.

However, that debit card number does not exist anymore as it was out of date so I was sent a new debit card with a new number since paying for the deposit

The bank is not willing to recall the payment as they said I need to contact the insurance company, which I have and they are adamant I owe this payment, I do not think I do! They sent me a letter to say the would take the payment from the debit card, I thought this was just a mistake so stupidly ignored it.

This is what I don't understand:
How can they take payment from a card that doesn't exist?

They say they use the ref number and not debit card number but don't they have to inform me they are holding the details of the ref number incase of future payments?

I only ever authorised them to take the deposit from the debit card account, no further payments should be taken without my consent- or do I not have a say who takes my money?

And why can't the bank recall this money? This is my money that has been taken without my authorisation.

I would be grateful for someone to shed some light on this please

Thanks

jonesMUFCforever

Simples! - you did not cancel the CPA on the card or cancel the policy with the insurance company.
Merely cancelling the direct debit at the bank only cancels the payment part.
There will be terms that you agreed to when applying for the insurance that if they are unable to collect premiums from your D/D they will use an alternative means.

You say the insurance finished - was your insurer one that automatically renews the policy if not advised otherwise?

If you have not already cancelled the policy with the insurer then do it now or they will want more money.

Neil_Jones

Um, car insurance doesn't automatically "end" as such, by default unless you specifically take action to cancel it, it will roll over at the renewal date. That and the requirement for vehicles to be continuously insured that was introduced a few years ago.

As to card payments from cards that don't exist, remember the bank will know your old card number, the fact a new one was issued (if its the same account) and they can allocate it to the right account. It works both ways such as if you get a refund to a card number that was cancelled/lost/eaten or whatever.

As to the payment itself, not being funny but have you read the terms and conditions of the insurance with regards to payments?

kirstycobie

Thanks for your replies

The term of the insurance was up (12 months) and I decided not to stay with them for another year.

I can not see any correspondence that I have that says they will keep these details for future payments

Does anyone else have any of no on this please

Thanks

eskbanker

kirstycobie wrote: »

The term of the insurance was up (12 months) and I decided not to stay with them for another year.

But did you advise them of this? As above, the norm now is auto-renewal, typically dressed up as 'you don't need to do anything' on the renewal paperwork that they'll send out when approaching the end of the year.

You could challenge the insurance company to provide you with the evidence they're relying on to support their contention that you owe them the money, at which I'd expect them to quote the relevant Ts & Cs, but you should have these already....

I get why you're focusing on the cards and the bank but the primary consideration really needs to be whether or not you owe the insurance company the money, the means by which they collected it is secondary.

YorkshireBoy

Have you still got the documentation from when you took out the policy last year? Did you read it?
Did you receive renewal documentation? Did you read it?
Do you still have any of it?

The answers to these questions will determine whether you have a valid complaint, and can take it to the Financial Ombudsman.

You could try a chargeback with your bank, but if the insurers tell the bank (and prove) you agreed to (and did not subsequently cancel) auto renewal last year, and you did not call them when you read the renewal documentation saying they would take payment, then the chargeback will be unsuccessful.

They sent me a letter to say the would take the payment from the debit card, I thought this was just a mistake so stupidly ignored it.

You won't be doing that again will you!? That's a very valuable lesson learned for breakdown insurance, buildings & contents insurance, etc, etc.

bigadaj

Whilst auto renewal is generally a dodgy scam it does make sense for motor insurance, as this is a legal requirement.

So having no cover would have a big penalty so there is reasonable justification, just make sure you cancel the old policy when you take the new one out!

pmduk

If you are certain now that you wish no further payments to be taken by this company you need to write to them cancelling any renewals of the policy and cancelling their authority to charge any further sums to your cards. Copy this to your bank.

YOU have to be specially careful to ensure there is absolutely no gap in coverage in policy at the end of term or you risk losing your car and accruing points and a fine.

robatwork

bigadaj wrote: »

Whilst auto renewal is generally a dodgy scam it does make sense for motor insurance, as this is a legal requirement.

I think it's more of a moot point as to whether it's a scam, sharp practice, or just preying on the lazy punter.

IF the company send/email/text the policyholder and make it clear their insurance will be automatically renewed, I would say it's the opposite of a scam - it's ensuring your home/car/contents/phone remain insured.

I set a yearly calendar reminder on my phone 7 days before all my policies end.

Chalkius

Unfortunately the bank are right that they can't refund it, as you gave the details and it was set up as a CPA. The bank can prevent future payments leaving though, so make sure you asked them to set up a cancellation for that CPA, they're obliged to do this, though if a company thinks you owe money they'll potentially pursue you for it via other meants. The bank would only refund certain payments(outside of a goodwill gesture), DDR payments under the DDr guarantee, payments they've made a mistake on, payments that are proven fraudulent, and payments that they've successfully made a chargeback for via VISA. Yours could come under the latter but it'll be very difficult to prove, as I'm willing to bet they'll have evidence to defend it (the letter regarding the renewal you ignored for one)

Whilst the card is no longer valid, the point of a CPA is that it they authorise it at the start(so when the deposit is paid)so they are able to take any future payments if they need to or feel it's authorised. I've seen a woman(when I worked in a bank) get stung for £2000 for an insurance policy she agreed to, paid the deposit, and the other party stopped paying the direct debit. They only had her details so they took it from her. And they were entitled to do so.

ICan'tStandIt

kirstycobie wrote: »

They sent me a letter to say the would take the payment from the debit card, I thought this was just a mistake so stupidly ignored it.

Why would they make such a mistake?

I think all you can do is insist your bank do a chargeback and threaten them with a formal complaint if they do not.

Your bank may then take pity on you and give you the money back out of their own pocket, but they don't have to do so.

You can lodge a formal complaint with the insurance company and again they may take pity on you, but they may not and as you ignored their letter assuming they had made a mistake, they have no reason to give you anything.