Rights of Way

Lurkingtoposting17

Hi guys

I am buying an end of terrace house, which is subject to rights of way. I was told when I looked at purchasing the property about the next door having a "right of access" through their garden, that was infrequently used (bins) which I was understanding about (I understand this is common in terraces, and lets face it, terraces are starter homes, so its just one of those things I think you have to live with. I live in a nice community so can't imagine any neighbour there would ever be problematic over access).

However looking at my plans, it actually specifies a fixed path for access (the exact wording is the blue hatched path is subject to a right of way).

My garden is actually very large for an end of terrace, and so I was considering extending the property and moving the right of way.... does anyone know if this is possible? My plan is to hopefully, extend upstairs, but if this isn't possible it would be a downstairs extension. Also, if during works to the property, the route was blocked, but access still allowed (e.g. if I would move the access path to the edge of my property boundary, so they would still have a right of access, but it would go around the edge of my garden rather than through the middle).

I have no problems with them storing bins by the front of my property and plan to put a bin store in for them and me, but if I can't extend and move the path, I am worried it becomes a deal breaker.

Speaking to anyone who has had experience with a right of access/moving it would be really great before I ask conveyancer to look into options. Also it doesn't say anything about it being reasonable or intermittent access (which I know some do). As the property has its own backdoor leading on to the garden, and its own front door, I was wondering if this is something thats worth seeing if you can get added to the title for peace of mind?

Thanks!

davidmcn

I don't think the presence of a back door is relevant, it's still commonplace so that the neighbours don't have to cart all their garden things through the house.
You'd need the neighbour's consent to amend the route (as it will be marked on their title too), which I doubt they'd have a problem with, but can get fiddly as your and their mortgage lenders would need involved, and you'd undoubtedly be expected to pick up everybody's costs.

Lurkingtoposting17

Thanks! I wanted to look into this before purchasing, but the neighbour next door is selling now too and so they are currently in the process of talking to solicitors and so forth.

My intention isn't to remove their access at all, but just find out if it has to be as per the path specified, or if I can amend that path.

I wouldn't mind paying for that whilst I am going through all of the current conveyancing process, to ensure I or my neighbours, don't have problems later down the line.

Some people say it puts people off when purchasing terraces, as they hear horror stories of people using the path constantly, so I feel like if I pay costs to change the path to the side of the house, away from my windows, so they have a 3 ft access path down the farside of my garden rather than the nearside and the back, they don't have to feel awkward by passing my property during use and neither do I. And looking forward, no one in the future gets to worry when purchasing the property about claims of use that are excessive, because they aren't subjected to seeing anyone walking through the garden, then its a win win for all surely?

G_M

You can certainly extend across the ROW, but you'd need to install doors at the entry/exit points of the ROW and allow the benficiaries of the ROW to walk through your extension whenever they wish (with their wheely bins if relevant)......

Alternatively you can move the ROW provided

* you clearly identify who are all the benficiaries of the ROW ( the general public? just 1 neighbour? All the owners in the terrace?)

* obtain consent from all those beneficiaries to the new route, and draw up/Execute a Deed

* amend your own Title, and the Titles of all the other affected properties, to show the new route.

Lurkingtoposting17

Thanks G_M you are fast becoming my MSE Expert
Before posting here I did some due dilligence on this and the thing that strikes me as strange, is the ROW really doesn't list a lot in my title deed? Examples I have seen have conditions and state who can use the path, the wording on mine however just says "The land in blue is subject to rights of way"
Could this therefore be a public right of way?! As it does not state who the beneficiary of such a right of way would be?

PasturesNew

Although G_M listed it and made it look feasible, if you study the detail of that you realise that it might prove impossible to discover everybody who has a right -and- that bit about altering ALL the deeds of all the people who do have a right could mean a few thousand quid in legal fees.

In the main, what you are proposing to do would not be done by anybody because it's a problem/expensive and mostly unachievable.

You have to get everybody in agreement with your wishes -and- pay for all the legals to be altered for everybody.

As this isn't "your perfect house" it's probably best to consider that you will end up letting it go.

davidmcn

Lurkingtoposting17 wrote: »

Thanks! I wanted to look into this before purchasing, but the neighbour next door is selling now too and so they are currently in the process of talking to solicitors and so forth.

I wouldn't mind paying for that whilst I am going through all of the current conveyancing process, to ensure I or my neighbours, don't have problems later down the line.

So co-ordinating this change with not only your sellers, but the neighbours, and whoever is buying their house? Good luck with that! Unless it's genuinely a must for you, I would suggest you leave any variations until after you've bought and know exactly what you want to do.

Mojisola

Lurkingtoposting17 wrote: »

the thing that strikes me as strange, is the ROW really doesn't list a lot in my title deed? Examples I have seen have conditions and state who can use the path, the wording on mine however just says "The land in blue is subject to rights of way"

There may be more information in the deeds of the houses that have the right of way over your garden.

This is a useful read -
http://www.boundary-problems.co.uk/boundary-problems/priv-r-o-w.html

Lurkingtoposting17

Thanks PasturesNew. I don't believe a perfect house exists, especially as a first time buyer. I think there is always things you would do to change it, things you would prefer, and unless money is no object you are unlikely to find perfect.

I understand it wouldn't be easy and actually didn't read G_M's post as easy at all to be honest. It sounds like a pain in the !!!.

I had figured that undertaking any changes to the deed would be better done at this stage, than at a later stage, whilst both myself, and the property next door are already working with solicitors, but again, I understand I could be over simplifying the matter and could be better to wait, to see if I do end up extending.

When I visited the property, the vendor stated that I had to allow access through my garden to the neighbour if they needed it for bins etc. I said fine, seemed reasonable and I (nor my parents) have ever lived in a terrace, so until I did some research I didn't realise this was a legally binding access route, and the implications of that. I also didn't realise that those access paths would be fixed, and therefore I would be unable to move them should I need to, I (clearly naively) thought that as long as I was not obstructing access, and made my garden available to my neighbours should they need access, that it was fine. The row of terraces is only 4, so my understanding is the other end gives access to the other properties garden, through their garden, if it is required.

But at that point I hadn't seen the Title deeds, and like I said, I now have concerns that perhaps, there is a PUBLIC right of way, not just access for the neighbour. I need to resolve that issue more importantly.

I am confident that being a nice, helpful, good neighbour ( I am a cup of tea and cake person and we live in a nice community where everyone generally knows everyone) would mean that I would have minimal problems with this ROW, and that in time if I did want it changed, most neighbours would probably be willing if I asked and was willing to pay fees/costs and betterment (provide security lighting, secure gate to their property, secure bin store etc).

But if its a public access path, I think it wouldn't be a proceed able purchase....

Lurkingtoposting17

Thanks Mojisola, appreciated.
I feel like I am constantly reading stuff at the moment, with regards to houses and mostly just confused, haha! I will ask my conveyancer to get the neighbours title deeds.

Ps. It says there "f the right of way is obstructed then you may divert along another route provided that the diversion remains on land belonging to the servient tenement (otherwise you would be trespassing on a third party's land);"

Surely that means if I obstruct the right of way, but provide an alternative through my land (e.g. via another path) then I am not in breach of the ROW?

davidmcn

Unless there's a route leading to another public place it's not going to be a public right of way (which in any event aren't necessarily noted on title deeds).