RE: Help Please

August68

Hello all,

I've read most of the post regarding private parking ticket but I haven't found one that is related to my case so I need an advise please.

Facts:

1. I am currently working in one of the hospitals in Bristol and I have a community parking permit.
2. I am on a lease car and just renewed it last March, the parking office issued me a temporary paper parking permit and it expires on April 2017, They didn't issue me a proper permit one as it's going to be renewed soon.
3. Although it is expired, I didn't bother to have it change as most of the community permit is expired anyway and the parking people knows about it.

Reason for PCN's - Failing to display a valid parking permit.
Company that issued PCN - Legion Group
Date Issued: 20.07.17

When I received the parking ticket, I went straight away in the parking office and told them about it, I've asked them if they can give me a letter stating that the parking company should honour the expired permit but they refused (although they verbally admitted that the parking people should honour the expired ticket) and said that they don't deal parking ticket and they only deals with the permit. They advised me appeal directly to the company. Also when speaking to them I found out on that day that my updated community permit has been ready for collection for days but they haven't told me or email me, their last email correspondence is that they will let me know once it is ready for collection but obviously they didn't.

Can anybody advise please on how can I appeal on this one. I believed I can appeal from their website. I am not quite sure what template should I use and what reasons should I say if I appeal to the company first.

Your advise will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
August

Fruitcake

Legion Group are BPA members so use the BPA template in blue from the NEWBIES thread. Copy and paste and send by whatever method it tells you to use on the PCN.
Do it as keeper and don't reveal the driver's identity.
If this was a windscreen ticket then send it around day 25 just like it tells you to in the NEWBIES. If it was a postal NTK, then just copy and paste and send straight away.

You should edit your post to remove that information about who did what as well. Only ever refer to The Driver and The Keeper.

Keep complaining to the hospital asmin to get this cancelled.

If/when Legion Group reject your initial appeal, start reading up on how to construct a PoPLA appeal using the template points from post 3 of the NEWBIES.

August68

Thanks for your quick reply 'Fruitcake'

It's a windscreen ticket, so basically I will wait around 25 days before I appeal. I will use the fail of signage reason although they have a signage on the car park (I am not sure though if they use the correct font).
I believed you advised me to use the 'blue template' for them not to know the driver and appeal as a keeper. That if I appeal using the reasons of 'I have a community permit' - that will reveal my identity as a driver and they can get my info from the hospital.
Does it matter if they found out eventually (just in case) through DVLA that I am not the keeper but a hirer instead as this is a lease car.
Many thanks.

Fruitcake

August68 wrote: »

Thanks for your quick reply 'Fruitcake'

It's a windscreen ticket, so basically I will wait around 25 days before I appeal. I will use the fail of signage reason although they have a signage on the car park (I am not sure though if they use the correct font).
I believed you advised me to use the 'blue template' for them not to know the driver and appeal as a keeper. That if I appeal using the reasons of 'I have a community permit' - that will reveal my identity as a driver and they can get my info from the hospital.
Does it matter if they found out eventually (just in case) through DVLA that I am not the keeper but a hirer instead as this is a lease car.
Many thanks.

You do not want them to find out who the driver is.
You don't want them to know this is a lease car yet. If they don't meet the strict requirements of the POFA 2012 regarding lease/hire cars then you will win at PoPLA. Therefore you do not want to give the game away in advance.

So, just follow the script and use the BPA template in blue around day 26 online or a few days earlier if you have to send it by post. The PCN will have the details on how to send the appeal. If you can only do it by post, then send I first class from a Post Office counter and get a free proof of posting.

August68

Got it. Many thanks for your advise and I will follow it. I'll let you know or post it once they replied.
Regards:)

Guys_Dad

You MUST prewarn the lease company and tell them that (a) you will be dealing with this (b) they must NOT pay this charge as you are challenging it and (c) they must follow the procedures in POFA. (Look that up and quote from the relevant sections)

August68

I will let them know tomorrow. Thanks Guys Dad. . .

August68

Hello all,

I have now a reply from Legion Group (see below), my appeal was declined and I was given a Popla code. Any help please on how to appeal on Popla.

Thank you for your appeal received on 15/08/2017 regarding the above detailed Parking
Charge Notice. We have reviewed the case and considered the comments that you have
made. This appeal has been considered in conjunction with the evidence gathered by the
parking attendant.
It is the driver’s sole responsibility to ensure that the vehicle when left unattended is parked
in accordance with the regulations displayed in the car park.
After careful consideration of your representation and for the reasons given above Legion
Group unfortunately cannot find any extenuating circumstances that would permit us to
cancel the above parking charge notice and therefore the parking charge notice was issued
correctly as per the car park terms and conditions and must stand.
The vehicle is parked, almost exactly in front of the signage stating who is allowed to park
here (please see attached).
You are therefore liable to pay the charge of £30 by 29/08/2017 .
To make payment, please choose one of the flowing two options details below.
Online Card Payment:
Payment can be made by visiting legiongroup and following the instructions to
make payment for a parking charge
By Telephone:
(Please have your card details, PCN number and vehicle registration number ready)
Automated 24 hour payment line: 01913385092
If the parking charge notice is not paid, we may obtain the registered keeper details from
the DVLA with whom we have approved conditional access. Regulations made under the
vehicle registration and licensing legislation provide that the DVLA may release vehicle
particulars to anyone who can show reasonable cause. Your details may be passed to a
third party Debt Recovery company, authorised by Legion Group for the collection of any
unpaid charges. Additional administration fees will be added to the original charge. Please
note that if this case goes to court and you are ordered to pay the parking charge, the
creditor may seek to recover additional amounts from you in addition to the parking charge.
You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure. If you are not satisfied
with the decision Legion Group has made regarding your appeal, you have the opportunity
to appeal to the independent appeals service, Parking On Private Land Appeals (POPLA).
You can find more information about making an appeal to POPLA via their website.
You will need your unique reference number which is 4912. . . . . . If you
do not have access to the POPLA website please contact us to find out how you can
submit an appeal to POPLA by post. If you are submitting your appeal by post, please note
that we must receive this within the 28 day period from this notice of rejection.
Please note that should you appeal to POPLA you will lose the right to make payment at
the reduced rate of £30 , and should POPLA’s decision not go in your favour you will then
be required to pay the full charge of £60 . You are hereby warned that Debt Recovery or
Court Action may be instigated to recover any unpaid Parking Charges. However under the
Data Protection Act if a payment is received, the Parking Charge Notice rescinded or once
the case has been resolved through the courts your details will be removed immediately
from our database. We await your remittance in due course and thank you in anticipation.
By law we are also required to inform you that Ombudsman Services provides an alternative dispute resolution service that would be competent to
deal with your appeal. However, we have not chosen to participate in their alternative
dispute resolution service. As such should you wish to appeal then you must do so to
POPLA, as explained above.
Yours sincerely,
Notice Processing Administrator

Coupon-mad

Any help please on how to appeal on Popla.

What help do you need, bearing in mind the NEWBIES thread covers it, with templates (post #3)?

August68

Thanks for your reply Coupon-mad.

I read the Newbies thread post #3

Clearly the parking company doesn't know that the car is a lease car. I read some forums related on lease car but most of them the parking company already obtained the details from the lease company and the lease company passes the liability to the hirer. I read POFA 2012 pertaining hire vehicles and come up with statement that I am going to use to appeal in POPLA. Please let me know if this is sufficient or not.


I appealing as vehicle hirer and confirm I was the hirer on the date in question Legion Group state on their parking charge notice.

However, Legion Group have failed to fulfil conditions of POFA 14(5)(a) which is 'notice to hirer.

Also Legion Group have failed to fulfil conditions of POFA 13(2) which requires they send me a number of documents.
The missing documents are
1) Notice to keeper
2) a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the
effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named
person under a hire agreement;
3) a copy of the hire agreement; and
4) a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement.

Additionally I do not beleive that the signage is adequate in words or placement to form a contract with any driver by performance
Addiionally the signage does not contain the required information for consumer contracts and so is not binding.

I therefore request that POPLA uphold my appeal and cancel this PCN

Guys_Dad

August68 wrote: »

Thanks for your reply Coupon-mad.

I read the Newbies thread post #3

Clearly the parking company doesn't know that the car is a lease car. I read some forums related on lease car but most of them the parking company already obtained the details from the lease company and the lease company passes the liability to the hirer. I read POFA 2012 pertaining hire vehicles and come up with statement that I am going to use to appeal in POPLA. Please let me know if this is sufficient or not.


I appealing as vehicle hirer and confirm I was the hirer on the date in question Legion Group state on their parking charge notice.

However, Legion Group have failed to fulfil conditions of POFA 14(5)(a) which is 'notice to hirer.

Also Legion Group have failed to fulfil conditions of POFA 13(2) which requires they send me a number of documents.
The missing documents are
1) Notice to keeper
2) a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the
effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named
person under a hire agreement;
3) a copy of the hire agreement; and
4) a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement.

Additionally I do not beleive that the signage is adequate in words or placement to form a contract with any driver by performance
Addiionally the signage does not contain the required information for consumer contracts and so is not binding.

I therefore request that POPLA uphold my appeal and cancel this PCN

So because you say that with absolutely no proof or evidence POPLA are just going to take your word for it?