Loft room classed as a bedroom with no building regulations

Help1234

exiled_red - If you are interested in the property make an offer on the basis of it being a 3 bedroom house with a condition for a survey, if you get to that point get the surveyor to determine the loft conversion is structurally sound, if it is everyone is happy, if not go back to the seller and renegotiate the price on the basis of what it would cost to make it structurally sound.

I would like to do this, however, I am not sure a surveyor could determine this. It would need to be an engineer making big holes in the walls and floor. If the floor hasn't been reinforced it could collapse under heavy weight.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2081465

lincroft1710

davidmcn wrote: »

But at some point it's going to be safe to call it a bedroom.

If, say, the kitchen were in a 1970s rear extension which nobody can find consents for, you wouldn't be obliged to pretend that the house doesn't really have a kitchen.

And it may be an unsafe bedroom!

Building regs for loft rooms specify the type of staircase, the strength of the floor, fire retardation measures and natural light/ventilation. Without building regs sign off, it is anybody's guess if the conversion was built in accordance with the regs.

jimbog

The attic window was there in 2005 if that makes any difference (from Google earth)

exiled_red

Help1234 wrote: »

I would like to do this, however, I am not sure a surveyor could determine this. It would need to be an engineer making big holes in the walls and floor. If the floor hasn't been reinforced it could collapse under heavy weight.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/2081465

I guess the best that you can do is speak to a surveyor and or engineer to find out what is likely to be required to determine this properly. Once you find out you can put this in your offer. If the owners don't accept this condition then you aren't going to get the property. If they do you proceed from there and see what it determines and act accordingly.

I am guessing if there are multiple offers they will go for the one without the survey condition, but I am guessing if this property does have the appropriate support for the loft you don't want to buy it and the seller probably won't want to sell as though it were a 2 bedroom so I doubt you are going to reach an agreement unless there are no other interested parties and they are desperate to sell.

Mutton_Geoff

I love the way estate agents squeeze every last bit out of their descriptions -


Second Floor Attic Room - 13'4" x 10'8" (4.06m x 3.25m) - (overall and into chimney breast recess)


Now look at pic 10 in the details. The agent must have got on his hands and knees to measure the extra few inches.


http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-60930844.html

davidmcn

lincroft1710 wrote: »

And it may be an unsafe bedroom!

Building regs for loft rooms specify the type of staircase, the strength of the floor, fire retardation measures and natural light/ventilation. Without building regs sign off, it is anybody's guess if the conversion was built in accordance with the regs.

Even if it did get building regs sign off in yesteryear, that doesn't mean it comes up to current day standards, or that it's still structurally sound. Or even that the council was paying much attention when they signed it off (you can't sue the council for being negligent, unlike your surveyor). Or that there hasn't since been undocumented work done to it which adversely affects its condition (given that often the consents only tell you that there was consent for something vague like "internal alterations").

sevenhills

Help1234 wrote: »

Sure, unless of course "at some point" never comes and it's simply never safe to call it a bedroom and someone dies during a fire or when the roof caves in. A kitchen extension doesn't share quite the same risks as people aren't asleep in the kitchen and can exit a kitchen in an emergency a little easier.

Furthermore the council could always order us to rip it out and reinstate it at our own expense.

Are you hoping that is does not have the correct building regs so that the price is reduced?
It looks really nice, it does not look like corners have been cut, to do it on the cheap.
Is there a standard staircase and enough headroom?

Help1234

sevenhills wrote: »

Are you hoping that is does not have the correct building regs so that the price is reduced?
It looks really nice, it does not look like corners have been cut, to do it on the cheap.
Is there a standard staircase and enough headroom?

I already know that it does NOT have any building regs and the estate agent have confirmed their advertising the property as a 3 bed was wrong. Whether or not this affects the price remains to be seen. I am a FTB so not exactly the most clued up on these things but obviously I don't want to buy a 2 bed house with a nice loft for a 3 bed house price. Honestly though I just don't know how I can proceed with this house without it being a potentially very expensive risk. I came on here to see if other people would proceed, and whether in their opinion it was overpriced given the nearby sold houses.

There is a standard staircase and I believe enough head room.

exiled_red

Help1234 wrote: »

I already know that it does NOT have any building regs and the estate agent have confirmed their advertising the property as a 3 bed was wrong. Whether or not this affects the price remains to be seen. I am a FTB so not exactly the most clued up on these things but obviously I don't want to buy a 2 bed house with a nice loft for a 3 bed house price. Honestly though I just don't know how I can proceed with this house without it being a potentially very expensive risk. I came on here to see if other people would proceed, and whether in their opinion it was overpriced given the nearby sold houses.

There is a standard staircase and I believe enough head room.

If it has been done properly but just doesn't have building regulations (because of age for example) that isn't really a problem, it is a 3 bedroom house in all but name. For me the BR aren't the issue, I would be happy to pay a 3 bedroom price for a house if the conversion had been done properly, but wouldn't if it hasn't. The only way you can find out is either by getting info from the current owner (which it seems they don't have) or by putting an offer in subject to survey and/or engineer report and seeing what that comes back with. If it comes back fine then great, if not you either renegotiate price or pull out.

But be prepared for the owners to be unwilling to accept your offer because of the survey in favour of an offer which doesn't have this condition.

It seems like this issue is a deal breaker for you so you so I don't see any other options apart from lowballing them with an offer based on the 2 bedroom and storage price from the start but I would be surprised if they went for that without evidence to show there is a problem (unless they are desperate to sell).

RositaF

davidmcn wrote: »

Nope, I'm not alone in considering that people tend to get over-excited about the mere mention of a loft conversion. If it's an historic alteration then any breach of building regulations isn't going to be enforceable, and structurally it's going to be obvious whether it's stood the test of time - so why would there be any effect on value? If on the other hand it requires strengthening or insulation work or is a firetrap, or has been done recently enough that in theory the council could knock on the door, then there will be an effect on the price.

Hi David,

I was very interested to read your post as I'm about to buy a house which was marketed as a 3 bed but doesn't have the BR approval for the loft, so on the advice of my surveyor I managed to renegotiate the price appropriate to a 2 bed with a nicely boarded out loft. When I move in I am hoping to rent out the loft space, but was wondering whether you have any knowledge about the legality of this?

I'm also setting up a building insurance policy but not sure whether to call it a 2 bed (because of lack of BR) or a 3 bed (because the third bedroom will be inhabited).

Finally, when I move in I would like to get a quote on getting approval for the loft (which was apparently converted by the council in the 1970s) but not sure whether getting a quote would mean I would be obliged to go ahead with the work, as it will be inhabited?

If anyone could shed any light on this it would be very much appreciated!