Landlord refusing to allow tenants to switch supplier - Odd Situation

Ruurb

G_M wrote: »

A S21 notice does not end a tenancy. So unless you agree to surrender your tenancy, and then agree to whatever terms are proposed in a new tenancy, the LL cannot change the current terms.

Only a tenant, or a court, can end a tenancy. NOT a landlord.

We are currently on a periodic tenancy basis following the end of the fixed term. I am aware of what a s.21 does and doesn't do but I am not in any way wanting the LL to proceed down the eviction proceedings route nor do I want to incur any costs of the LL doing so. There was nothing in the old tenancy agreement allowing the LL to vary the terms of the agreement so you are right, they can't force us to agree and indeed we rejected their changes, they then served us with a s.21 notice and presented us with a new agreement on the varied terms at the same time.

The relevant clauses

The Tenant agrees with Landlord:
To promptly pay the authorities to whom they are due, council tax, water and sewage charges, gas, electricity and telephone (if any) relating to the property, where they are incurred during the period of the Agreement, including any which are imposed after the date of this Agreement and to pay the total cost of any reconnection fee relating to the supply of water, gas and electricity and telephone if the same is disconnected.

Gas and electricity will be provided, or will be in the process of being provided by the energy supplier. The tenant agrees that the letting agent may pass the Tenant's details to the energy supplier for the purposes of registering the gas and electricity meters at the property in the Tenant's name with the energy supplier, providing gas and electricity to the Tenant and administering the Tenant's account with the energy supplier.

And to clarify, the new tenancy agreement has not been signed yet - still considering options.

G_M

Ruurb wrote: »

The relevant clauses
....

And to clarify, the new tenancy agreement has not been signed yet - still considering options.

So under the current (old) agreement, why have you been paying the LL for utilities. Your obligation is to pay the supplier. If the supplier does not send you a bill, no need to pay.

Under the new agreement, you wll get a drect connection to a supplier, via a meter. The supplier will bill you. There is nothing sttopping you switching supplier provided you pay. This seems reasonable. So sign the new agreement and get the security of a new fixed term.



Note: I have in the ack of my mind that if a LL offers a new tenancy agreement at the same time as (or subsequent to) serving a S21 BNotice, then the S21 is invalidated. The legal theory being that the offer of a new contract clearly contradicts any intention to evict.

Someone else may confirm or deny this.....

Ruurb

The current old agreement contained a term that said the tenants will pay the landlord £75 for water and electricity, so the terms are different to the ones I have posted which are the new terms.

It seems that I have since received a revised version to the terms above. The difference highlighted below.

The Tenant agrees with Landlord:
To promptly pay the authorities to whom they are due, council tax, water and sewage charges, gas, electricity and telephone (if any) relating to the property, where they are incurred during the period of the Agreement, including any which are imposed after the date of this Agreement and to pay the total cost of any reconnection fee relating to the supply of water, gas and electricity and telephone if the same is disconnected. The Tenant agrees to notify the LL prior to changing supplier of any utilities services stated above.

At the start of the lease, gas and electricity will be provided, or will be in the process of being provided by the energy supplier. However, this will not prevent the Tenant from charging to a different energy provider if desired.

The tenant agrees that the letting agent may pass the Tenant's details to the energy supplier for the purposes of registering the gas and electricity meters at the property in the Tenant's name with the energy supplier, providing gas and electricity to the Tenant and administering the Tenant's account with the energy supplier.

Based on the above it would appear (despite referring to the lease) that I am entitled to switch supplier, contrary to the LL's position, coming through the letting agent. Even still, I am now obliged to notify the LL of the change of utility provider but I can forsee there being problems if I do.. and I suddenly end up changing everyone's supplier.

Anyway.. my research has taken me to the electricity and gas (internal markets) regulations 2011, and which amends the Electricity Act 1989, suggests that LL's of multi-occupancy buildings must allow tenants to choose their own energy supplier unless it is not possible to do so or it would not be economical - need to read a bit more as to whether the LL (which is a company) falls under these regulations. Either way it seems like the other half wants to stay here for the time being but even if we do I am considering taking the matter to court as I feel we should still at least have the opportunity to choose our own tariff from the energy supplier if its cheaper than what's being offered.

I have in the ack of my mind that if a LL offers a new tenancy agreement at the same time as (or subsequent to) serving a S21 BNotice, then the S21 is invalidated. The legal theory being that the offer of a new contract clearly contradicts any intention to evict.

Is it just that, a legal theory or any case law to back that up? I suppose you could say the same in an employment situation where an employer terminates an employee's contract and then offers to re-hire the employee on new terms - its the employer's choice.

GrumpyDil

Just one quick question but does the agreement have a definition of the energy supplier as that clause reminds me of one's I've seen before related to Spark Energy.

45002

Ruurb wrote:

Thanks for the replies.

The relevant terms under the tenancy states that the gas/electricity will be provided by the energy supplier and that the standard wording about the tenant paying for all utilities, water charges etc. Nothing to suggest the LL is paying or reselling the gas

@45002 I accept your point about the account being in the LL's name, but if we are being billed direct by the energy supplier, surely the LL is not reselling the gas in that instance? How can we determine if the LL is not profiting from it, are we entitled to know the rates, take meter readings etc? I don't even know where the meters are in the building!

@theartfuldodger, it is an AST yes and we also pay for council tax too. When we first started the tenancy it was a fixed rate of £75 inc. water rates and electric. Apparently, due to the energy supplier being unable to bill individually for each apartment, the LL took the decision to charge apportion the bills at £75 per apartment (or perhaps this was a lie and it was down to some tenants excessively using electricity and water?!). Now water rate £25 per month unless we go over and we are billed for it, electricity as said above is billed individually moving forward.

My initial view from a legal perspective is that it falls foul of competition law and/or is an unfair contract term. However, if there is in fact one electricity feed into the building then the LL arguably may say that it is disproportionate cost-wise to spend more money installing further feeds/meters. I don't know if there is anything in statute that makes it unlawful in a residential tenancy situation to prevent tenants from switching, or at least I've found nothing.

I was perhaps thinking that if all tenants agreed (or the majority) to switch then that might be an option but the LL is refusing that too.

@G_M, the issue about changes to the tenancy terms is irrelevant since they've served a s.21 and reissued us with a new tenancy agreement on the new terms, albeit very poorly drafted with a number of excessive charges but that's besides the point. My main interest is the choice of supplier.

I was referring to current way you are paying for Electric which would be covered by resale of gas and electricity re post # 7

Ruurb wrote:

there is one electricity feed into the building and therefore sub-meters for each apartment springing off that one feed .

I think what your LL is going to do is under the new arrangement, if you agree is send you a invoice for electric used from himself or LA every month, taking readings from the LL sub meters which again would be covered by resale of gas and electricity re post # 7



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stator

Take a photo of your meter. Is it a proper meter? Does it have the stickers on it that a supply meter does?

45002

stator wrote:

Take a photo of your meter. Is it a proper meter? Does it have the stickers on it that a supply meter does?

OP posted

Ruurb wrote:

I don't even know where the meters are in the building!

.

G_M

Drip drip drip.

Ruurb

GrumpyDil wrote: »

Just one quick question but does the agreement have a definition of the energy supplier as that clause reminds me of one's I've seen before related to Spark Energy.

Sorry, have been busy the last 24 hours or so but to answer the question above you are right. Energy supplier is Spark Energy.

As for the meter, yes I have managed to get access to it kindly offered by concierge so I've taken a photo of the current reading. The only sticker on there was the apartment number.

Anyway, have raised a number of queries clarifying the provisions I mentioned above as I'd like to get their response in writing. Failing that, given the missus' stance we will probably end up staying put for another six months but I am inclined to issue a claim and get a declaration on the relevant terms as being unfair (to some extent) if there's no resolution.