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CPM PCN Claim Form - Defense - Please guide
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moin214
Posts: 11 Forumite
Hi everybody.
I have gone through the threads regarding pcn's from private car parks. There is lots of information and I am overwhelmed & confused. Not sure what info I can use to fight/defend the claim form I received in correct legal terms.
If you can please guide me / point me to the posts which are relevant to my scenario would be glad to read more and then prepare a defense to post for review.
This is the story so far
Background
I Stay in an apartment block with allocated parking bay to park my vehicle.
The apartment parking is managed by CPM (which is under IPC)
1. First Parking ticket - 04 October 2016 ( I have lost the parking permit, I purchased the car only in Sep 2016 and the bay was allocated to me since Feb 2016)
2. Applied for Duplicate parking permit - 05 October 2016
3. Another parking ticket - 07 October 2016
4. Duplicate parking permit received - 10 October 2016
5. As would be my bad luck parking ticket received on 15/05/2017 as my kid removed the parking permit and it was lying on the car seat
- The penalty of 100 pounds for this is already paid on 14/07/2017.
First Parking Ticket Status:
After numerous letters from Debt Recovery
I have received a letter from Gladstones Solicitors asking me to pay the outstanding parking charge.
Have not received any claim form so far
Second Parking Ticket Status:
After numerous letters from DRP
Have received the claim form (on 12/07/2017) for the second parking ticket.
I have acknowledged this on the MOCL website and would need to prepare a defense for this.
Appealed both these ticket in Independent Appeals Service(IAS) paying 30 pounds per ticket
First Parking ticket Appeal
Appeal Status
Appeal Dismissed
The parking charge has been upheld. You may view the adjudicator's comments in the section below.
Motorist Details
You paid the ADR fee on 13/12/2016.
You reported that you were the registered keeper but not the driver at the time the parking charge was issued.
You reported that you are being held liable for the parking charge.
My Appeal
You completed the appeal on 18/12/2016 19:24:53.
I am resident (tenant) of *********. I am making this appeal since the parking is allocated to me, I have the FOB key and it was between the time from ordering a duplicate permit till the postal receival that the parking ticket was given. I have attached the rent agreement and the parking permit for your reference.
Following is the sequence of events -
1. Flat on rent from Feb 2016 and bay *** is allocated to the flat (Attached rent agreement)
2.Possess the parking entrance FOB key, handed over the Ringley management.
3.Car was parked in the bay since Sep 2016
4.Lost the parking permit and couldnt reapply immediately, since I have 4 months small nursing baby and things become a bit slow moving.
5.Parking permit applied on 5th Oct and received by post only on 10th Oct.(Attached permit)
Already requested Ringley and CPM for charge cancellation explaining the complete scenario and my condition during that time. But no positive help/response.
Operator's Prima Facie Case
The operator made their Prima Facie Case on 20/12/2016 14:48:53.
The Operator Reported That...
The appellant was the keeper.
The operator is seeking keeper liability in accordance with PoFA..
A manual ticket was placed on the vehicle.
The ticket was issued on 04/10/2016.
The charge is based in Contract.
The Operator Made The Following Comments...
The appellant has parked without clearly displaying a valid UK CPM parking permit. The appellant has parked within clear view of our sign. Signage clearly states "A valid UK CPM parking permit must be clearly displayed in the front windscreen at all times" By the appellant parking at the restricted area, they have contractually agreed to pay the parking charge notice.
Adjucator's Decision
The adjudicator made their decision on 18/01/2017 18:32:27.
The terms and conditions of parking at this location are such that drivers must display a valid permit in their vehicle which entitles them to park there. In the photographs provided to me it is clear that no such permit was displayed and therefore that a Parking Charge Notice was lawfully issued. It is the driver’s responsibility to ensure that a valid permit is clearly displayed in the vehicle at all times and that it conforms with the terms and conditions of the parking operator’s signage displayed at this site. The appellant gives mitigation regarding the circumstances surrounding the reason for not displaying the permit, but as adjudicator I am restricted to legal issues. I am satisfied that the parking charge was properly issued. As much as one may have sympathy for the appellant in these circumstances, this appeal has to be dismissed.
Second Parking Ticket Appeal
Appeal Status
Appeal Dismissed
The parking charge has been upheld. You may view the adjudicator's comments in the section below.
Motorist Details
You paid the ADR fee on 18/12/2016.
You reported that you were the driver and the registered keeper at the time the parking charge was issued.
You reported that you are being held liable for the parking charge.
My Appeal
You completed the appeal on 18/12/2016 19:09:50.
I am resident (tenant) of *************. I am making this appeal since the parking is allocated to me, I have the FOB key and it was just between the time from ordering a duplicate permit till the postal receival that the parking ticket was given.
I have attached the rent agreement and the parking permit for your reference.
Following is the sequence of events -
1. Flat on rent from Feb 2016 and bay *** is allocated to the flat (Attached rent agreement)
2.Possess the parking entrance FOB key, handed over by Ringley management.
3.Car was parked in the bay since Sep2016.
4.Lost the parking permit and couldn't reapply immediately, since I have a small nursing baby.
5.Parking ticket applied on 5th Oct, but received by post only on 10th Oct. (Attached permit).
6.Got the parking ticket on 7th Oct.
Already requested Ringley and CPM for charge cancellation explaining the complete scenario and my condition too; but no positive help/response.
Operator's Prime Facie Case
The operator made their Prima Facie Case on 20/12/2016 14:43:11.
The Operator Reported That...
The appellant was the driver.
The appellant was the keeper.
The operator is seeking keeper liability in accordance with PoFA..
A manual ticket was placed on the vehicle.
The ticket was issued on 07/10/2016.
The charge is based in Contract.
The Operator Made The Following Comments...
The appellant has parked without clearly displaying a valid UK CPM parking permit. The appellant has parked within clear view of our sign. Signage clearly states "A valid UK CPM parking permit must be clearly displayed in the front windscreen at all times" By the appellant parking at the restricted area, they have contractually agreed to pay the parking charge notice.
Appellant's Response:
The appellant made their response on 29/12/2016 17:23:33.
Parking Permit applied on 5th Oct but received by post only on 10th Oct. Don't expect the operator to charge during the issuance time period.
Operator's Response
The operator made their response on 06/01/2017 13:03:37.
The new permit was sent out on 05/10/16 when it was requested and all ordered/replacement permits are sent by First Class franked mail. The appellant was not displaying a permit therefore they were not authorised to be parked, the signage is clear in stating the terms and conditions for parking and as the appellant is a resident/permit holder they are fully aware of the terms.
It is the driver's responsbility to ensure they are adhering to the terms and conditions for parking at all times, regardless of the circumstances.
Appellant's Response
The appellant made their response on 06/01/2017 15:55:21.
I dont have the postal cover. Can we have the postal reference number to recheck when it was delivered. I am very sure I had received it only on 10th October
Adjudicator's response
The adjudicator made their decision on 18/01/2017 18:45:01.
This is the second appeal I have dealt with in relation to this appellant. My findings have not altered. The terms and conditions of parking at this location are such that drivers must display a valid permit in their vehicle which entitles them to park there. In the photographs provided to me it is clear that no such permit was displayed and therefore that a Parking Charge Notice was lawfully issued. The appellant is aware of the terms and conditions, being a resident of the site. This appeal is therefore dismissed.
I have gone through the threads regarding pcn's from private car parks. There is lots of information and I am overwhelmed & confused. Not sure what info I can use to fight/defend the claim form I received in correct legal terms.
If you can please guide me / point me to the posts which are relevant to my scenario would be glad to read more and then prepare a defense to post for review.
This is the story so far
Background
I Stay in an apartment block with allocated parking bay to park my vehicle.
The apartment parking is managed by CPM (which is under IPC)
1. First Parking ticket - 04 October 2016 ( I have lost the parking permit, I purchased the car only in Sep 2016 and the bay was allocated to me since Feb 2016)
2. Applied for Duplicate parking permit - 05 October 2016
3. Another parking ticket - 07 October 2016
4. Duplicate parking permit received - 10 October 2016
5. As would be my bad luck parking ticket received on 15/05/2017 as my kid removed the parking permit and it was lying on the car seat
- The penalty of 100 pounds for this is already paid on 14/07/2017.First Parking Ticket Status:
After numerous letters from Debt Recovery
I have received a letter from Gladstones Solicitors asking me to pay the outstanding parking charge.
Have not received any claim form so far
Second Parking Ticket Status:
After numerous letters from DRP
Have received the claim form (on 12/07/2017) for the second parking ticket.
I have acknowledged this on the MOCL website and would need to prepare a defense for this.
Appealed both these ticket in Independent Appeals Service(IAS) paying 30 pounds per ticket
First Parking ticket Appeal
Appeal Status
Appeal Dismissed
The parking charge has been upheld. You may view the adjudicator's comments in the section below.
Motorist Details
You paid the ADR fee on 13/12/2016.
You reported that you were the registered keeper but not the driver at the time the parking charge was issued.
You reported that you are being held liable for the parking charge.
My Appeal
You completed the appeal on 18/12/2016 19:24:53.
I am resident (tenant) of *********. I am making this appeal since the parking is allocated to me, I have the FOB key and it was between the time from ordering a duplicate permit till the postal receival that the parking ticket was given. I have attached the rent agreement and the parking permit for your reference.
Following is the sequence of events -
1. Flat on rent from Feb 2016 and bay *** is allocated to the flat (Attached rent agreement)
2.Possess the parking entrance FOB key, handed over the Ringley management.
3.Car was parked in the bay since Sep 2016
4.Lost the parking permit and couldnt reapply immediately, since I have 4 months small nursing baby and things become a bit slow moving.
5.Parking permit applied on 5th Oct and received by post only on 10th Oct.(Attached permit)
Already requested Ringley and CPM for charge cancellation explaining the complete scenario and my condition during that time. But no positive help/response.
Operator's Prima Facie Case
The operator made their Prima Facie Case on 20/12/2016 14:48:53.
The Operator Reported That...
The appellant was the keeper.
The operator is seeking keeper liability in accordance with PoFA..
A manual ticket was placed on the vehicle.
The ticket was issued on 04/10/2016.
The charge is based in Contract.
The Operator Made The Following Comments...
The appellant has parked without clearly displaying a valid UK CPM parking permit. The appellant has parked within clear view of our sign. Signage clearly states "A valid UK CPM parking permit must be clearly displayed in the front windscreen at all times" By the appellant parking at the restricted area, they have contractually agreed to pay the parking charge notice.
Adjucator's Decision
The adjudicator made their decision on 18/01/2017 18:32:27.
The terms and conditions of parking at this location are such that drivers must display a valid permit in their vehicle which entitles them to park there. In the photographs provided to me it is clear that no such permit was displayed and therefore that a Parking Charge Notice was lawfully issued. It is the driver’s responsibility to ensure that a valid permit is clearly displayed in the vehicle at all times and that it conforms with the terms and conditions of the parking operator’s signage displayed at this site. The appellant gives mitigation regarding the circumstances surrounding the reason for not displaying the permit, but as adjudicator I am restricted to legal issues. I am satisfied that the parking charge was properly issued. As much as one may have sympathy for the appellant in these circumstances, this appeal has to be dismissed.
Second Parking Ticket Appeal
Appeal Status
Appeal Dismissed
The parking charge has been upheld. You may view the adjudicator's comments in the section below.
Motorist Details
You paid the ADR fee on 18/12/2016.
You reported that you were the driver and the registered keeper at the time the parking charge was issued.
You reported that you are being held liable for the parking charge.
My Appeal
You completed the appeal on 18/12/2016 19:09:50.
I am resident (tenant) of *************. I am making this appeal since the parking is allocated to me, I have the FOB key and it was just between the time from ordering a duplicate permit till the postal receival that the parking ticket was given.
I have attached the rent agreement and the parking permit for your reference.
Following is the sequence of events -
1. Flat on rent from Feb 2016 and bay *** is allocated to the flat (Attached rent agreement)
2.Possess the parking entrance FOB key, handed over by Ringley management.
3.Car was parked in the bay since Sep2016.
4.Lost the parking permit and couldn't reapply immediately, since I have a small nursing baby.
5.Parking ticket applied on 5th Oct, but received by post only on 10th Oct. (Attached permit).
6.Got the parking ticket on 7th Oct.
Already requested Ringley and CPM for charge cancellation explaining the complete scenario and my condition too; but no positive help/response.
Operator's Prime Facie Case
The operator made their Prima Facie Case on 20/12/2016 14:43:11.
The Operator Reported That...
The appellant was the driver.
The appellant was the keeper.
The operator is seeking keeper liability in accordance with PoFA..
A manual ticket was placed on the vehicle.
The ticket was issued on 07/10/2016.
The charge is based in Contract.
The Operator Made The Following Comments...
The appellant has parked without clearly displaying a valid UK CPM parking permit. The appellant has parked within clear view of our sign. Signage clearly states "A valid UK CPM parking permit must be clearly displayed in the front windscreen at all times" By the appellant parking at the restricted area, they have contractually agreed to pay the parking charge notice.
Appellant's Response:
The appellant made their response on 29/12/2016 17:23:33.
Parking Permit applied on 5th Oct but received by post only on 10th Oct. Don't expect the operator to charge during the issuance time period.
Operator's Response
The operator made their response on 06/01/2017 13:03:37.
The new permit was sent out on 05/10/16 when it was requested and all ordered/replacement permits are sent by First Class franked mail. The appellant was not displaying a permit therefore they were not authorised to be parked, the signage is clear in stating the terms and conditions for parking and as the appellant is a resident/permit holder they are fully aware of the terms.
It is the driver's responsbility to ensure they are adhering to the terms and conditions for parking at all times, regardless of the circumstances.
Appellant's Response
The appellant made their response on 06/01/2017 15:55:21.
I dont have the postal cover. Can we have the postal reference number to recheck when it was delivered. I am very sure I had received it only on 10th October
Adjudicator's response
The adjudicator made their decision on 18/01/2017 18:45:01.
This is the second appeal I have dealt with in relation to this appellant. My findings have not altered. The terms and conditions of parking at this location are such that drivers must display a valid permit in their vehicle which entitles them to park there. In the photographs provided to me it is clear that no such permit was displayed and therefore that a Parking Charge Notice was lawfully issued. The appellant is aware of the terms and conditions, being a resident of the site. This appeal is therefore dismissed.
0
Comments
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Appealed both these ticket in Independent Appeals Service(IAS) paying 30 pounds per ticket
Wait...you paid £15 per PCN, for ''non-standard'' ADR from the IAS (eeeeek, no!) which is run by the same people who run the Trade Body the IPC and who run Gladstones...
And you have PAID a third PCN at £100, to boot?!
I don't quite know where to start, I am so sad you've done pretty much everything we tell people not to do. But I need to break it to you that the ''non-standard'' ADR from the IAS was not only something you could never have won, in our experience, but which asks you to sign away your rights and agree that it is legally binding as it is an official 'ADR'.
You agreed to accept their 'ADR' decision and you paid £15 a pop to be rejected and stuffed:
http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/01/is-independent-appeal-service-kangaroo.html
''The non-standard service charges the motorist a non-refundable £15 and requires them to sign an agreement that they will not dispute the verdict, that they will pay the parking company in full, and they will also pay any debt collection charges added. They are also not allowed to dispute the verdict on any grounds whatsoever.
The non-standard verdict should therefore not be touched with a bargepole.''PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
my kid removed the parking permit and it was lying on the car seat - The penalty of 100 pounds for this is already paid on 14/07/2017.
If the permit was visible just on car seat not windscreen, it is a shame this has been paid.
I'm not familiar with the IPC ADR process but it need not necessarily preclude court success. I cannot find any clear comment that it is a binding arbitration. Prankster has decent comment on the limitations of the IPC system that are likely to be best deployed in response to any Claimant comment that refers to failed ADR (do not volunteer that the case was rejected at ADR unless required to)
http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/independent-parking-committee-fail-to.html?m=1
The starting point is to check the lease (whether the terms of the property are such the lease "outguns" any later parking contract - search forum under primacy of lease). If so, that may well be the main plank of your defence.
If the court were to decide there was no enforceable parking ticket scheme you have the option of pursuing your own claim for the ticket you've already paid and ADR costs, but I suggest you'd need the judgment first.0 -
@Coupon-mad I didnot know about this threads on MSE until one of my friends told me about this recently :-( I will check upon the IAS verdict being final and can not be contested0
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@Johnersh I will check out the link and see how I can write my defense.0
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