Issue with "house guest" next door.

kev-insted

Hi,

.......................

DumbMuscle

It is entirely possible to have someone who is living at the property who is not the tenant - provided this is not against the terms of the tenancy. Effectively, they are in a similar position to a lodger of the tenant (so don't have tenants' rights) - the tenant is liable for the rent and must be evicted through a formal process, the guest is there with the permission of the tenant, is not liable for the rent on the tenancy (though may have an agreement with the tenant), and can be turfed out pretty much at will by the tenant. If the tenancy agreement does not state that only the tenant can reside there, the LL cannot change those terms without a new agreement and has no way to intervene.

ReadingTim

kev-insted wrote: »

I can't understand why the landlord is not prepared to intervene.

Money is the reason the landlord doesn't care: getting rid of a tenant means no rent and possible additional cost of finding a new one, plus major hassle (and therefore cost) if said tenant decides not to move and/or trashes the place when they do. The landlord is not affected by the anti-social behaviour of the tenant or the boyfriend, therefore there's noting to gain and everything to lose by getting rid of them.

In short, the landlord has taken a business decision not to intervene. Sorry if this isn't what you want to hear.

aneary

Unfortunately you can not be privy to the discussions between the tenant and the LL it's actually not your business.

I feel for you but all you can do it note down all the noise time, dates etc. call the police when things appear to get out of hand, you can offer to be a witness with regard to domestic abuse especially if the victim is unable to give enough evidence and the time of noise etc will help.

Guest101

kev-insted wrote: »

Hi,

Can anybody offer advice on this. I have contacted the CAB and the police are visiting me this evening. I have contacted the local authority who are claiming they don't have anybody to deal with anti-social behaviour. - Well that's mostly the police's job, but we'll examine it below

My family and I live next door to a private tenant whose boyfriend has moved himself in to the property. Before I go on, the landlord is aware of this and has confirmed that he isn't her tenant. - That is not relevant. The tenant can have whoever she wants move in

So...the tenant moved in several months ago with her young daughter. Within a matter of days the boyfriend appeared and quickly became a regular fixture. And that's when the blazing rows started at all hours. Add to this: drug use in the property, driving at high-speeds in a residential road and parking issues with other neighbours. - Ok, well the drug use is obviously a crime (but one very rarely enforced by the police if i's just cannabis), the speeding obviously a crime but would need to be proven and the parking is just a parking dispute.

Eventually, we had to intervene several weeks ago late one evening when a row led us believe some form of abuse was taking place. - What kind of row? My wife went to check on the tenant and her young daughter and received verbal abuse from the boyfriend. - and? At the behest of the tenant, we did not call the police but notified the landlord of what had happened. - why? it's not a LL issue

Then, on Monday 18th at 10am, the police were called by another neighbour. Prior to the police arriving I had intervened - believing the tenant and her daughter were at risk - and received verbal abuse and threats from the boyfriend. - you seem very keen to intervene, is there any actual crime being committed? The tenant did not wish to make a complaint and I was advised by the police they could take no further action. - indeed.

I contacted the landlord and she said she would visit the tenant on Tuesday. I advised the landlord the tenant's boyfriend is effectively living in the property and asked her to explain why this was the case. - because the tenant is allowed to have a partner? Then on Tuesday evening I received texts from the landlord to say she had spoken to the tenant (she did not come to the property) and that she would monitor the situation. But she would not answer any questions about why the boyfriend was living in the property, despite him not being her tenant.

On Wednesday morning I contacted the police and filed a report (to go alongside the case from Monday) based on our experiences. - of what? I expressed that our issue is with the boyfriend and not the tenant. The officer I spoke to was not impressed when I told her the only response I received from the landlord was her claim she had contacted the tenant and was monitoring the situation. - irrelevant. The police don't deal with civil matters. (tenancies)

A series of texts between myself and the landlord produced another claim that she was "taking the matter very seriously" and ended with her informing me she was not prepared to discuss why the boyfriend is living in the property. - You are verging on harassment now

Like I said, the police are visiting me this evening. But given what we have experienced (my own daughter is still distraught after what she witnessed on Monday), I can't understand why the landlord is not prepared to intervene.

Because the LL probably cannot intervene. The tenant can have anyone she wishes there. - yes that's the legal position. No your opinion doesn't matter - legally.

Guest101

DumbMuscle wrote: »

It is entirely possible to have someone who is living at the property who is not the tenant - provided this is not against the terms of the tenancy. Effectively, they are in a similar position to a lodger of the tenant (so don't have tenants' rights) - the tenant is liable for the rent and must be evicted through a formal process, the guest is there with the permission of the tenant, is not liable for the rent on the tenancy (though may have an agreement with the tenant), and can be turfed out pretty much at will by the tenant. If the tenancy agreement does not state that only the tenant can reside there, the LL cannot change those terms without a new agreement and has no way to intervene.

and even if it does say that, it would be very difficult to enforce as the tenant has exclusive use of the property and quiet enjoyment.


in other words the tenant is entitled to a life.

Guest101

aneary wrote: »

Unfortunately you can not be privy to the discussions between the tenant and the LL it's actually not your business.

I feel for you but all you can do it note down all the noise time, dates etc. call the police when things appear to get out of hand, you can offer to be a witness with regard to domestic abuse especially if the victim is unable to give enough evidence and the time of noise etc will help.

At the minute there is no evidence of abuse. People row, having an argument is not a crime.


Telling nosey neighbours to jog on is not a crime either.


So far there is drug offences and driving offences. That's what the police should concentrate on.

Guest101

kev-insted wrote: »

So we do stand by when we suspect a 4 year old is being subjected to some form of abuse?

No. But you have said there was a row. You haven't said that at anytime there was abuse.


If you want to support the tenant then why are you contacting anyone but the tenant?

elsien

The police can take further action in domestic violence cases even if the person does not want to press charges, if there is enough evidence for them to do so. Saying that they can't is passing the buck. It is not the landlords responsbility to police the behaviour of her tenant and guests.

As above, keep a diary and keep reporting if it is getting out of hand. Report to social services if you genuinely believe a child is in danger.

lovinituk

kev-insted wrote: »

So we do stand by when we suspect a 4 year old is being subjected to some form of abuse?

What's that got to do with the living status of the tenants boyfriend? Are you saying if he was on the Tenancy Agreement that you would not intervene?!

Just call the police if you suspect a crime.

saajan_12

This has nothing to do with the LL / tenant situation. A tenant is allowed to have guests and not all occupants have to be listed as tenants. The only things at play are
* Noise from the shouting affecting you -> keep a log of the times, but I doubt shouting will amount to enough that will bring about any action.

* Your concern for the woman & daughter next door suffering abuse. Technically it's nothing to do with you. You may be able to appeal to the LL to demand change or evict the tenants but they have no duty to. You may be able to appeal to the woman next door to report to the police, but she doesn't have to. If neither choose to take action, there''s nothing you can do.