Deposit withheld

clutton_2

Chriseast - RE inventories - if you do not have a detailed written inventory at the beginning of the tenancy there is no yardstick to measure damage against at the end. make sure you keep records or all emails texts and phone calls you make to the agent or LL referring to repairs.


The fact that this work has not been done and new tenants are now in the property is not an argument which a judge will accept - as the landlord will just say it was booked in for the next week m'lud.

Nic 0205 - a " walkthru" does not an inventory make !!! you have to have a written inventory with both landlords and tenants signatures on it in two places - one on check in day and one check out day and signed and dated by both parties.

no inventory - no deposit deductions - that simple. dont get into a long letter about who said what and why, just say this - no inventory no deductions, return my deposit within 7 days other wise i will issue proceedings against you.

good luck

if you have a spare few hours you can read EagerLearners thread on here !!! she won in the end !!!!

paintpot

I am a landlord and always hope my tenants view me highly in the way I address issues they raise and I never make unneccessary deductions from deposits. There are bad landlords out there and there are also bad tenants - so there are always two sides to every story. In your case as you presented the facts I would suggest you have a case against the landlord. As a compromise to the previous posters' suggestions you could issue a "letter before action" - basically send them a letter demanding the money back but accompany it with a completed county court form so they know you mean business. It's up to you whether you put in 7 or 14 days but my understanding is that 14 days is the norm. As other posters have said, if you definitely did not SIGN an invetory then the landlords don't have a leg to stand on. Courts (sometimes unjustly I have to say as a landlord, not that it has ever happened to me ) favour the tenants side of the story. Just make sure all your facts are correct and stick to the points of your case rather than waffling on about irrelevant things to "point score" against the landlord. Good luck

lou23_2

Hello

This is my first posting on here, but thought it would be a good place to ask advice. We have recently moved out of a property that we rented for 2.5 years through a well-known agency (in the South anyway!). I contacted them today as we hadn't heard about our £750 deposit. Basically we were told at the time when we left our keys at the office, that we didn't need to attend the house when they checked it & that we would be contacted if there were any problems. Today I have been informed (after I contacted them) that the landlady wants to hold our deposit back as she is waiting for quotes for redecoration & recarpeting, which I feel is disputable. The house had been quickly repainted (in magnolia over walls that were in desperate need of re-plastering anyway) & carpeted in cheap carpet before we moved in. Earlier this year, while we were living there (and with the agreement of the landlady) we paid over £800 pounds to recarpet the hall, stairs,living room & dining room with a much better quality carpet & underlay (as there wasn't any down initially). We also landscaped the garden which cost us over £1000 & left a new shed (worth £200). I can't believe that they are now expecting to take a large amount of money off our deposit and am soooo angry. I just want to know whether I have a leg to stand on & think it was wrong that we weren't there on check-out day to agree with the faults that they have found. I just feel that the agents are on side with the landlady & we don't have any protection.

Thanks for any advice & sorry it's so long, but I needed to let off steam somewhere!!

paintpot

A few thoughts for you along the lines of the above psotings really:

Did you have a signed inventory - if not the landlord doesn't have a leg to stand on. If you do have one, then you need to obtain a copy of the check out report from the agent about the supposed damage you have caused compared to what was in the original inventory when you moved in.

Did you get it in writing that you could change the carpets or was it verbal because the landlord could say it was never agreed? I was a bit confused about your comments regarding the comments as you say they were cheap carpets and then you said you had some fitted because there weren't any? Do you mean there were some carpets and other floors were bare? If the latter is the case, even in unfurnished properties, no carpets is rather irregular. Ditto re the garden - even if you have "improved" the garden, the landlord could argue that they didn't want the garden changing. Your tenancy agreement will probably have a clause in it about not making changes to the property to prevent people for example changing the lovely cheap magnolia walls to fushia pink or a cheap beige carpet to fluorescent turquoise, even if you used pink paint at £1000 a tin and a carpet at £1000 per square meter!

On the other side of the coin, if you have been there for 2.5 there would be a reasonale amount of wear and tear and landlords have to allow for that so for example if the carpets were brand new then they can't expect after 2.5 years for the carpets to be in the same condition and if the walls were freshly painted they would have to expect some marks to the walls. Have you got any photos of before and after to assist your case?

I would write to the agent so that you have it as evidence should a court claim be necessary (hand deliver it if possible and get a copy stamped by the agent to speed up the process due to postal strikes or send it registered post) and ask them for a copy of the check out report to establish what exactly is considered to be wrong with the property but that is subject to my comments above regarding the existence of an inventory etc. I would also ask them what timescales they are intending to work to in regard to returning the property - unless the property is in a complete mess, a reasonable landlord should return a deposit within 14 days. Keep a record of all your phone calls and correspondence aswell.

Hope that helps in some way.

lou23_2

Hello paintpot,

Sorry I didn't make myself clear in my initial post. Basically we did have an inventory when we first moved in, but didn't get one when we left the property 10 days ago. The whole house was carpeted throughout in cheap, light coloured carpet with no underlay when we moved in. It became worn very quickly & the agent did comment on one inspection about how worn it was, to which we asked if we could replace the carpets that were in the worst state (at our own expense) & had confirmation from the agent that the landlady had agreed to this. The garden had a delapidated wooden shed that leaked & you couldn't store anything in it & we chopped down bushes & shrubs to open up the garden (which was also agreed).
I am just annoyed that they haven't informed us of any problems until today, when I contacted them, and think that really we should have had to sign a 'checking out' report which we weren't asked to do. Also, there are new tenants now living in there.

Thanks for your advice,

Emma

paintpot

Hi

In which case I would apply some pressure to the agent sooner rather than later to get your deposit back and find out what is supposed to be wrong with the property. You haven't commented on whether the permission you received from the agent/landlady re the garden, shed and carpet was verbal or written, if verbal they could argue that permission was not granted. I would seem from your comments that the agent has done regular inspections, in which case I would also ask for copies of the inspection reports because if the changes you made or the condition of the property was in question and in light of the changes you made then this should have appeared on any inspection reports which the agent should have kept. Also, what does the original inventory say about the conditon of the said items, at the end of the day, an inventory is only any use to a landlord if it sufficiently detailed so you need to compare the checkout report to the original.

If it were me, I would make another phone call to the agent, (be polite but firm) ask them to be specific about the problems with the property, ask them for timescales on the return of the deposit, receipts for any work that they consider needs to be done and how much deposit you are going to receive back, ask them to send you a copy of the check out report and the inspection reports and subject to their response I would back it up with a letter requesting copies of the said reports, provide them with the copies of any written permission for the changes you made like carpets if you have it, any other evidence like photos and inform them that if they fail to reply within 7 days you will commence court proceedings for the recovery of the deposit. Do ensure that you keep records of all telephone and written correspondence, hand deliver or send registered post written correspondence as they could delay things much more as they have the excuse of the postal strike. You could arrange to go in to collect the check out report etc if you are local to the agent.

As I said in a previous post, as a landlord, bad tenants really p**s me off but bad landlords and letting agents really p**s me off as well because they give us good landlords a bad name. I always appreciate there are two sides to every story but by why the sounds of it, if I had been your landlord and had a reliable rent paying tenant for 2.5 years who had spent money on my property I would have been over the moon. However, I don't put crap carpets and rotten sheds in my houses though so you wouldn't have had to replace them

Its all a pain in the you know what but persevere with it and don't let up with the agent as they will want to get shut of you as quickly as possible.

Let me know how you get on

Badger_Lady

lou23 wrote: »

Earlier this year, while we were living there (and with the agreement of the landlady) we paid over £800 pounds to recarpet the hall, stairs,living room & dining room with a much better quality carpet & underlay (as there wasn't any down initially). We also landscaped the garden which cost us over £1000 & left a new shed (worth £200).

:eek: That's more than I've ever spent on a house I owned! Your LL is a right rip-off merchant.

lou23_2

I know I feel physically sick at the moment because of all this, I woke up at 4.30am this morning worrying about it. I am currently waiting for someone from the agency to ring me back. I am soooo annoyed.

Thanks all for your advice

clutton_2

read eagerlearners thread - very long - 3 hours reading if you are awake all night !!! she got her deposit back after a years struggle. you will learn a lot from it.

if you have not signed the checkout inventory i doubt very much whether any judge would agree deductions.

you are now trapped between the agent and the landlord. the agent works for the landlord NOT for you.

if you have the landlords address, i would copy all your letters to the agent to him/her. It is the landlord who is legally responsible for all this, not the agent, and it is the landlord who you will have to sue, not the agent.

the fact that you have improved their property and/or garden will have no legal bearing on this deposit - i know its annoying.

i just lost my longest tenant after 5 years, and i did not deduct one penny even though the house needs redecorating and new carpets - i regard that as wear and tear.

She did her own minor DIY and i had no voids for 5 years, why would a decent person want to claw back on a deposit if they have benefited in other ways ?

paintpot

if you have the landlords address, i would copy all your letters to the agent to him/her. It is the landlord who is legally responsible for all this, not the agent, and it is the landlord who you will have to sue, not the agent.



Yes sorry you are correct and I should have made that point clearer, it was late and I was tired but wanted to get a response to the OP.

If the landlord's address and contact number is not on the tenancy agreement you should ask the agent for it - they are legally obliged to supply the landlord's details to you so don't let them fob you off.

Try not to lose sleep over it, easier said than done I know.