garage roof replacement

Robin9

Could you send off a sample to an asbestos laboratory - then you will know.

andrewf75

Robin9 wrote: »

Could you send off a sample to an asbestos laboratory - then you will know.

yes I guess I should do this, I had been advised not to bother as these kind of roofing sheets are not the most harmful type which requires protective enclosures/men in space suits anyway. So many conflicting views...

EachPenny

andrewf75 wrote: »

yes I guess I should do this, I had been advised not to bother as these kind of roofing sheets are not the most harmful type which requires protective enclosures/men in space suits anyway. So many conflicting views...

Have you had further advice since your last thread then as I thought the outcome of that was fairly clear.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5663522

The boards are deteriorating badly, so there is a risk of loose fibres if the sheets are asbestos cement.

As per the comments Niv and I made, the idea that asbestos cement products are not harmful is complete b!!!!!x. All products containing asbestos pose a health risk, different fibre types pose different levels of risk.

Unless you get the sheets tested then you won't know if they contain asbestos, and if they do, what kind. As Niv said, he has come across blue fibres in asbestos cement products - this certainly wouldn't be classed as "not the most harmful type".

You should either get the sheets professionally tested to identify the material, or else get a competent asbestos removal contractor to do the job. Contaminating the contents of the garage, your garden, your car, your clothes etc for the sake of saving a bit of money is not a good idea.

andrewf75

I am in the process of getting firms to come and quote for it, but I have done further research and the official advice https://www.aic.org.uk/asbestos-cement-faqs/ is that this type does *not* need the expensive specialist asbestos removal firms.

EachPenny

andrewf75 wrote: »

I am in the process of getting firms to come and quote for it, but I have done further research and the official advice https://www.aic.org.uk/asbestos-cement-faqs/ is that this type does *not* need the expensive specialist asbestos removal firms.

With asbestos the terminology and details are very important, which is why people who don't understand the risks are advised to seek professional help. The link you posted contains the folowing answers and I have highlighted some key words:

A: The product used on an asbestos contaminated garage will have been asbestos cement, which has an asbestos content of between 10-15%. If it’s in good condition and not being abraded – or going to be abraded – then it will not be releasing dangerous quantities of fibres. The garage should be monitored so that if the condition begins to degrade it should be removed at that time.

A: You do not need to employ a licensed contractor, but you do need to use one that is competent; see ‘Working with Asbestos Cement Products’ for more information.

Your 'asbestos' is not in good condition and to remove the sheets will require the fixings to be removed which usually involves some degree of abrasion.

Asbestos cement sheets in good condition and left alone won't release dangerous quantities of fibres, but that doesn't mean the fibres themselves are not dangerous.

If the sheets are not in good condition or you carry out work on them then dangerous quantities of fibres may be released. If your asbestos cement contains say blue fibres then you will have dangerous quantities of particularly dangerous fibres.

This is why you need to get professional advice rather than relying on internet research - the internet cannot tell you what the risk actually is in your case.

You also seem to be getting confused about "expensive specialist asbestos removal firms". There is a difference between a licensed contractor and a competent contractor. I suggested you get a "competent asbestos removal contractor" to do the job if you don't want to get the sheets tested first.

A competent asbestos removal contractor will understand the risks associated with handling asbestos (of any kind) and won't do the job if it is dangerous - they have the knowlege to understand the limits of their abilities and when to hand over to a licensed contractor instead.

A typical roofing contractor may not have the knowledge of asbestos risks and might happily cut the fixings with an angle grinder and smash the sheets to make them easier to handle. You will be left with the asbestos contamination to deal with.

In terms of official advice, you can get that from the HSE.

I would not wish to cast doubt on the information provided on the website you linked to, but you should be aware that it is not 'official advice'. The site appears to be operated by a company providing training courses. Please note the following extract from the site's disclaimer: (my highlighting)

All information provided on this website is – to our knowledge – accurate, however it must be stated that this information has been created by sourcing information from numerous other websites. As such, the Asbestos Information Centre can not be held entirely responsible for any inaccuracies.

Before relying on any source of information on the internet relating to a safety-critical subject it it essential to also research the source and confirm its status.

Asbestos is a very dangerous material - it is extremely unwise to take any risks with it.

andrewf75

Thanks and I appreciate the time you have taken to post all this, but can I ask what your credentials are? I am not going to take any risks, but I am pretty experienced at separating good and bad advice from the internet and there seems to be a consensus that these kind of sheets can be *carefully* removed by an ordinary roofing contractor or DIY. I’ve turned away one person already but even he wasn’t going to cut the sheets. A reputable roofer certainly won’t.

EachPenny

andrewf75 wrote: »

...but can I ask what your credentials are?
...these kind of sheets can be *carefully* removed by an ordinary roofing contractor or DIY.

My training is in engineering and I have a knowledge of health and safety as a result. Knowing and understanding the risks of asbestos was part of my training, but I'm in no way an expert on the subject. I also have personal experience of working with asbestos which is something, with hindsight, I very much regret.

If the sheets you have do not require a licensed contractor then you can use a competent contractor. This is the important bit - how do you know an ordinary contractor is competent? Roofing in particular is a trade where many cowboys operate (few customers will climb a ladder to check their work). If the contractor you select is not competent then you may end up with a very expensive mess at best, or an asbestos related disease at worst.

I'll try and illustrate the point with a parallel example. If you needed a lung-transplant you might just about be able to do it yourself with a lot of luck. It is likely you'll have a slightly higher chance of sucess if you got the local butcher to do it for you. Your GP would give you a much better chance of survival, but the safest way of a sucessful outcome would be to go to a specialist transplant surgeon.

The licensed contractor is the specialist surgeon - but you wouldn't go to one of them if you just had a cough, in fact they are likely to tell you to go to your GP instead. The competent contractor is the GP, they have a good idea what to do, but have been trained to know their limits. The roofing contractor is the butcher - they know about anatomy and cutting things up but so long as the price is right they might be willing to take on anything. The DIY surgeon has a strong incentive to do a good job, but lacks the knowledge to do so safely.

The advice about asbestos you read on the internet is mainly put there by the butchers and the DIY'ers.

You might think it a bit odd to pick the lung transplant parallel. But your lungs are in effect what you are gambling on when it comes to working with asbestos - would you put them in the hands of your butcher, or would you seek help from someone who knows what they are doing?

That's why I've previously asked how much value people place on their lungs? Is it more or less than the difference in cost between a competent asbestos removal contractor and a random roofing contractor out of the phone book?

EachPenny

andrewf75 wrote: »

I’ve turned away one person already but even he wasn’t going to cut the sheets. A reputable roofer certainly won’t.

If you have experience of most contractors you'll know that what they say when they quote for a job and what they do when they actually do the job are not always the same thing. Even if you were at home and supervising the work would you stop them if you saw them get an angle grinder out to cut through the fixing bolt heads?

andrewf75

EachPenny wrote: »

That's why I've previously asked how much value people place on their lungs? Is it more or less than the difference in cost between a competent asbestos removal contractor and a random roofing contractor out of the phone book?

Surely it would be the lungs of the builder who takes it down at risk not mine?

EachPenny

andrewf75 wrote: »

Surely it would be the lungs of the builder who takes it down at risk not mine?

It would be if they did the job thoroughly, but if they leave the contents of your garage and/or your garden strewn with asbestos fibres then you too will be at risk.

If they aren't going to do the job properly then the chances are they won't take too much care in clearing up after themselves. And why would they, if they believe there is no risk from asbestos cement sheets? "It's only a bit of dust, the wind will blow it away".