Liability of new kitchen supplier

Minnie999

Dear All,

I recently had a new kitchen installed but I am not happy with the hood that was fitted (used to extract the smoke and steam from the cooker).

The supplier I am dealing with, who designed the new kitchen and supplied all of the fittings including the hood, supplied a hood that was installed over the cooker but as soon as I started using it, the smoke produced by cooking was not being extracted satisfactorily by it (ie some of the smoke/steam remained in the kitchen). I contacted the supplier who suggested that an engineer from the hood manufacturer had to come round to confirm there was a problem, before they were prepared to replace it. An engineer did come round and confirmed in writing, that a larger hood was required for the size of kitchen that I have. However, when I contacted the supplier they said that 'the engineer report did not make sense' (despite it clearly saying that a larger hood was required for the size of the kitchen) and that a second engineer would need to come round with an air flow meter to check the hood again. I am awaiting the inspection of the second engineer.

What I would like to know is, what are my rights under this scenario and how should I proceed - for example, am I entitled to a replacement of the larger hood free of charge? My understanding is that the size of hood is dependent on the size of the kitchen, and so the correct size hood should have been supplied from the outset. This is based on the advice from the hood engineer. However the supplier is saying that the correct hood was supplied. I feel that I am being fobbed off at the moment and being given the least cost solution, which does not fulfil my requirements.

Any advice would be gratefully received.

Many thanks!

AndyMc.....

Minnie999 wrote: »

Dear All,

I recently had a new kitchen installed but I am not happy with the hood that was fitted (used to extract the smoke and steam from the cooker).

The supplier I am dealing with, who designed the new kitchen and supplied all of the fittings including the hood, supplied a hood that was installed over the cooker but as soon as I started using it, the smoke produced by cooking was not being extracted satisfactorily by it (ie some of the smoke/steam remained in the kitchen). I contacted the supplier who suggested that an engineer from the hood manufacturer had to come round to confirm there was a problem, before they were prepared to replace it. An engineer did come round and confirmed in writing, that a larger hood was required for the size of kitchen that I have. However, when I contacted the supplier they said that 'the engineer report did not make sense' (despite it clearly saying that a larger hood was required for the size of the kitchen) and that a second engineer would need to come round with an air flow meter to check the hood again. I am awaiting the inspection of the second engineer.

What I would like to know is, what are my rights under this scenario and how should I proceed - for example, am I entitled to a replacement of the larger hood free of charge? My understanding is that the size of hood is dependent on the size of the kitchen, and so the correct size hood should have been supplied from the outset. This is based on the advice from the hood engineer. However the supplier is saying that the correct hood was supplied. I feel that I am being fobbed off at the moment and being given the least cost solution, which does not fulfil my requirements.

Any advice would be gratefully received.

Many thanks!

Not if the larger hood costs more.

Doozergirl

Building reguations dictate an extract rate per second of 30 litres for new rooms. In an existing room, there is no such regulation, you just have to match what exists.

It's quite unusual for a kitchen designer to specify extraction rate, unless you point out a need. Did you ask for somethig specific? Even Miele recommend quite different rates for different types of cooking. I have only had one conversation about extraction rates and that was a chinese client who stir fries traditionally, and I personally have no preference as I place little value on high extraction rates and my budget would probably involve an awful lot noise for more power and what I would personally perceive as no gain.

These things are specified for you and you have the opportunity to check what you are buying. Did you talk about extract rates? If you are persuasive then perhaps they will upgrade it for the cost of the upgrade only, but I can't see how a supplier should supply something better than what was agreed at their own cost.

Furts

Cooker hoods do not vary according to kitchen size. So your hood should be adequate. There are things to check. Some models are recirculating models and others have switching so they can be set for recirculation. You need to establish what you have.

If yours is an extracting hood, or set for extraction, then flow rate is stipulated in the Buildings Regulations. This is a minimum flow rate so if you are doing smoky cooking and the hood complies then you cannot complain here,

It is common for the extract ducting to have kinks/too many bends/incorrect detail at the wall/ unsuitable extract grille/unsuitable extract location, to name some which come to mind. All these defects can cause flow problems and hence issues like yours. On all of these you need to check what you specified, what has actually happened and whether they are causing problems.

On balance, simply fitting a different hood is not the answer. Many other factors first need investigating.

ryder72

There are several facets to the response-

1. Did you discuss any specific extraction requirements based on cooking habits? If you are relying on the kitchen designer to make the 'right choice' for you without supplying any specifics, you are on thin ground. An extractor for griddling would be quite different than one for general cooking. As a thumb rule, you extractor should have an extraction rate of 12 times your room volume. This may be achieved by running a lower spec hood at intensive setting, but good practice would be to spec for running at a medium speed with lower noise levels. This is were cost comes in. A hood capable of extracting 1000m3/h, roughly what would be effectively required for griddling in an average open plan room at a mediium speed wont be under £1000.

2. To what extent was your choice driven by your budget. Refer to point above. The designer in the absence of guidance had to use his/her judgement to specify. Should have discussed with you but thats a moot point.

3. Building regs is a tick box. A hood at 30l/min is 108m3/h, roughtly what a bathroom extractors and is barely adequate for airing a room. That is the purpose of building regulation standard - to prevent damp/mold. It is utterly pointless to extract smoke and moisture generated from cooking.

4. If you dont mind sharing, what brand is the product. It is very unusual for a technician to comment on the hood sizing.

5. Has the hood been properly installed, ideally on a 6 inch vent with clean straight runs.

6. Ultimately whatever hood you install, dont expect all smoke and moisture to go straight out. Some of it will escape into the room and will only be effectively removed if you operate the hood properly. Start the hood 10 minutes before cooking. Ensure you have a good cross airflow and not one that disturbs the extraction draft. A 10 minute overrun after cooking is essential to remove any smoke and odours that escape into the room.

Ultimately your supplier has a responsibility to install the hood properly even if it may be undersized and more often than not a poor installation is the biggest factor if poor extraction performance.

Annie1960

Minnie999

Your question is about your consumer rights. Many of the people on this forum work in the construction industry and some take the view that if there is a problem then it's usually the customer's fault.

If you want to know about your consumer rights, then speak to Citizens' Advice consumer helpline, who can advise you. Google their number.

No doubt there will be people along criticising my post as I am giving you objective information about who can help you. They like to pretend they are experts in this when they are not, and they try to censor me for providing this information to people like you.

Give Citizens" Advice a call then come back here and tell us what they say.

System

There are minimum extraction rates set in the building regs for domestic kitchens (but I don't think I've ever seen one that doesn't exceed those) - in commercial kitchens the extraction rates done via calculation on the equipment/volume of room, so I wonder if the first engineer has conflated the two?
Or do you have a 6 ring hob or something with a 600mm wide hood? Can't really understand the too small thing...
Just pester them with it - I have had one replaced by a kitchen company because they had installed 100mm ducting for the extract rather than the 150mm specified which was reducing the rate of extraction... hard to establish what the actual problem is with the information given

ComicGeek

Did the supplier also fit the hood and ducting, or was this done by someone else?

1st issue is whether the hoods performance meets what they told you it should (if nothing specified, then this would be minimum Bldg regs standards which are crap for kitchens).

2nd issue is if it doesn't, is it a problem with the hood itself or the ducting. If supply and install have been done by 2 separate parties then the problem needs to be identified before you can identify who needs to resolve it.