PACE/Gladstone court claim

itsgeekchic

Hi, all. So the low-down in that I was parked in a small permit car park operated by Ace Security but at the time did not know that it was. Incident happened in October very late a night in a very dark deserted car park and some of the spots in the car park have signs for various companies so I parked in one that corresponded with where I was going, not seeing much else on my drive in and left it at that. Return an hour later and only once I had reversed out of the space and started driving forwards out of the car park (old car so no auto lights, I turned them on and immediately started reversing), do I see a ticket on the windscreen.

I was told to ignore it as they couldn't get my details but have since received NTK and LBC, both of which responded to requesting information using templates etc from here but not mentioning who is the vehicle keeper.

They have now filed a claim form with a court really far away from me. I have acknowledged said claim form and could use some help from you knowledgeable folk in writing my defence.

I believe that as the car park was so dark and not every spot had signage that it was a case of inadequate signage/lighting on their part creating difficult to understand parking terms.

Also, anyone know how to request a change of court venue as both myself and Ace live in the same town but Gladstone has files for a court 3 hours away from me?

Fruitcake

Do you mean you haven't revealed the driver's identity? They already know who the keeper is.

Post 2 of the NEWBIES thread has a lot of information about court, including a link to a guide written by Bargepole. This explains the process you need to follow including what to do and when, and help with filling in parts of some of the forms. I believe it tells you how to request a change of venue, and also to ensure you want an oral hearing, not a hearing on papers.

The first thing to do is acknowledge the claim and state that you will defend it, but do not put anything in the defence box. Not even a full stop.

You should also go and take pics of the site in the same conditions, ie night time without flash. You need images of the entrance and signs to show how inadequate they are.

itsgeekchic

Thanks for the quick reply. Yeah that's what I mean, although I haven't specified driver identity, only signed my name at the bottom of the letters.

I have stated in my previous letters that I intend to defend the claim.

The site has had lighting added by residents in the last 6 months that is motion activated to a few of the spots on the opposite side to where I was parked so taking pics now wouldn't really be relevant.

I downloaded the pics from the Ace website and they are all super dark, you can only see the car because of the flash, including some seemingly random images that seem like they were hoping to catch a peeking receipt or name on anything inside the car. The one of the sign is barely readable as they aren't very close to the sign.

Quentin

Don't worry about getting correspondence from Northampton.

If this ends up in a court hearing you will be choosing where, not them

Fruitcake

Good, but make sure the driver's identity is never revealed.

You mentioned previous letters. Did you get a MCOL as you have to acknowledge that online?

If the lights have motion sensors, you stand still and wait for them to go off and then take pictures. You really need your own as it may be possible for a driver to follow a route where signs would not be seen.

Their pics of the car will be to show that there was no permit on display, so you need your own images to show a driver would not have seen signs, or that the signs are inadequate to form a contract.
You can also use their own images to rubbish them if they do not prove the car was where they say it was, or their own pics of signs show they are unreadable.

Coupon-mad

They have now filed a claim form with a court really far away from me.

No, they haven't! They've filed a claim via MCOL which just happens to start at Northampton, it's a central processing court. YOU get the choice of local court.

Please read the NEWBIES thread post #2 all about defences.

itsgeekchic

Coupon-mad wrote: »

No, they haven't! They've filed a claim via MCOL which just happens to start at Northampton, it's a central processing court. YOU get the choice of local court.

Please read the NEWBIES thread post #2 all about defences.

Thanks for clearing that up. I had been through a lot of the newbie stuff and even did some forum searches for court venue stuff but couldn't find anything.

itsgeekchic

Fruitcake wrote: »

Good, but make sure the driver's identity is never revealed.

You mentioned previous letters. Did you get a MCOL as you have to acknowledge that online?

If the lights have motion sensors, you stand still and wait for them to go off and then take pictures. You really need your own as it may be possible for a driver to follow a route where signs would not be seen.

Their pics of the car will be to show that there was no permit on display, so you need your own images to show a driver would not have seen signs, or that the signs are inadequate to form a contract.
You can also use their own images to rubbish them if they do not prove the car was where they say it was, or their own pics of signs show they are unreadable.

I got the claim form, is that the MCOL? sorry if i'm being dumb. I replied online to the acknowledgement of service so that i would get the 28 days

Yeah it's a shame it gets dark so late now, but i will definitely try and get some of my own to back things up.

I will post what I've got defence wise so far tomorrow to get your guys opinion on. Thanks

Coupon-mad

I know there's a lot to take in, from post #2 of the NEWBIES thread, but both links here tell you this (that YOU choose the local court). I've lifted this section straight out of the NEWBIES thread post #2:

IMPORTANT - KNOW WHAT YOU MUST DO AND BY WHEN!

Here is a walk-through the process from defence onwards (i.e. AFTER acknowledgement of service) by Loadsofchildren123:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/72244727#Comment_72244727

Here's a summary from bargepole of what happens when, what you MUST do in time, re the paperwork & deadlines:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5546325

Fruitcake

MCOL = Money Claim OnLine.

OK, that's all good so far.

Yes, post up your defence for the experts here to check.

Print off the acronyms from the NEWBIES, and also the Bargepole court guide for reference.

Umkomaas

They have now filed a claim form with a court really far away from me.

Northampton? Almost all county court claims we see are initiated through Northampton County Court, but this is the CC Business Centre, which deals with the commencement of the process. A little later in the process (Directions Questionnaire stage) you will be asked at which court you would like the hearing. The defendant determines this, not the claimant.

But this will not before Gladstones try to throw you a curve ball by suggesting to the court that this is all 'relatively straightforward and should be heard on the papers' (i.e., no hearing). You will be contesting this. If correctly contested, you will get the hearing at the county court nearest you.