London Parking Solutions (PCN Parking solutions - Hove/paymypcn.net)

CB1979_2

I have posted on pepipoo as well, but may as well post here as they refer to the newbies guide which I've read and think i've understood!
anyway...

FOR CLARITY THIS IS THE TIMELINE SO FAR...

snapped on the 07/05/17
LPS sent to ERAC (hire company) on the 09/05/17
ERAC stamped received on 15/05/17
ERAC replied to them 18/05/17
LPS received ERAC's reply 24/05/17
LPS sent PCN to hirer on 25/05/17
Hirer received PCN to Hirer on 30/05/17
Hirer appealed on 09/06/17
Appeal rejected on 15/06/17
Hirer emailed again to LPS on 28/06/17, stating again non-compliance due to no hire agreement being sent.
LPS emailed on 29/06/17, again stating tough.

photos taken @ :16:05 (with the driver sat in the car, so assuming they're using pinhole/bodycams as no one saw anyone taking snaps and they have about 10!)

got a nice £35 charge from Enterprise for the privilege of them writing to me and passing on my details to the parking company.

snapped on the 07/05/17
posted on the 09/05/17
ERAC stamped received on 15/05/17.

basically i've just received the letter from ERAC (enterprise) but not a follow up letter from LPS and have until tomorrow to pay the £60 before it goes up to £100.

obviously the car was parked in the bay

example of the pics there are 2 from front on that actually show the numberplate properly, the other 7 or 8 are of as poor quality as this (also ignore the time at the top as it seems to be correct at the bottom of the pics) ...

CB1979_2

on advice I then sent them this

Please find my appeal as follows:


To whom it may concern,

REFERENCE - PCN Number: xxxxxxxxxx Vehicle Registration: xxxxxxxxxxxx

I refer to the above-detailed Parking Charge Notice (“PCN”) issued to me by London Parking Solutions (“LPS”) as a Notice to Hirer. I confirm that as the hirer of this vehicle, I am its keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definition under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“POFA”) and I write to formally challenge the validity of this PCN.

You will no doubt be familiar with the strict requirements of Schedule 4 of POFA to be followed in order for a parking operator to be able to invoke keeper liability for a Parking Charge. There are a number of reasons why LPS's Notice to Hirer did not comply with POFA; in order that you may understand why, I suggest that you carefully study the details of Paragraphs 13 and 14 of Schedule 4 in particular.

For the avoidance of doubt, this is an appeal from the hirer of this vehicle and you are required under your Code of Practice, to treat it as an appeal. If you have any evidence of the identity of the driver on this occasion, please furnish me with that evidence now and I will indeed pass the Notice onto them.

In the absence of evidence as to the driver (who cannot lawfully be assumed to be the hirer, keeper, or the owner) you have no case and must stop processing my data. Enterprise supplied my data to you, merely confirming that I was the hirer. On receipt of that information, you were required to serve certain documentation with a 'Notice to Hirer' but London Parking Solutions failed to do so. It is now too late to reissue the Notice to Hirer with the required Hire documents, and you cannot hold me liable for this alleged parking charge.

Any further processing of my data will be considered to be harassment, because you would be using my data for a purpose outwith the applicable law for hirer liability. Should you proceed further (including unlawfully reverting to Enterprise, who have named me as hirer and also cannot be liable for your purported charge) I will have no hesitation in filing a claim - or counter-claim, should you commence proceedings - for compensation set at not less than £250, for each event of misuse of my data under the DPA 1998.

I would remind you that the International Parking Community's Code of Practice holds all members out for the purposes of the Data Protection Act 1998, as a 'data controller' in Section B (5): Data Processing: ''You are required to be registered with the Information Commissioner as a data controller.'' It follows that there is no question that London Parking Solutions bears the responsibility of being a data controller in this matter.

If you duly cancel this charge, now that the position regarding lack of liability has been clearly brought to your attention, then I undertake not to charge nor pursue London Parking Solutions, this being a drop-hands offer, open to you for 14 days. Should the parking charge not be cancelled by 23.6.17, I will hold London Parking Solutions for my wasted time at the LIP rate of £19 per hour, as well as seeking compensation as briefly outlined above, as regards your ongoing breach of the Data Principles and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

Yours faithfully,

and surprise surprise they rejected...

Thank you for your appeal against the above Parking Charge Notice ('PCN').

Your appeal has been carefully considered however, on this occasion, the appeal has been rejected for the reason(s)
detailed below:-

Your vehicle was observed as being parked in a Permit Holders Only parking space, without clearly displaying a valid
parking permit. Notice of the terms and conditions of parking is served by way of numerous large warning signs which
are displayed at prominent places throughout the site.

Whilst we note the contents of your appeal, we would advise that you are currently liable for this PCN as they hirer
of the vehicle, if you know the driver of the vehicle you are able to supply their details in order to transfer the
liability.

You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure and you now have various options:
* You can pay the total amount due of £60.00 within 14 days from the date of this letter.
* Pay securely online at www.paymypcn.net
* Call our payment line on 03450 737209
* Send a payment to: PCN Parking Solutions, PO Box 5419, BN52 9AN (please quote xxxxxxxxxx on all payments)
* You can appeal to the Independent Appeals Service (IAS)

If you believe this decision is incorrect, you are entitled to appeal to the IAS. In order to appeal the IAS will need your
PCN Number, your vehicle registration and the date the charge was originally issued.

The IAS (www.theIAS.org) provides an Alternative Dispute Resolution scheme for disputes of this type. As you have
complied with our internal appeals procedure, you may use and we will engage with, the IAS Standard Appeals Service
providing you lodge an appeal to them within 21 days of this rejection.

IMPORTANT NOTE:

Should you decide to appeal to the IAS and your appeal is subsequently rejected, the option to pay a discounted
amount will no longer be available and the full amount of the PCN will become due, payment should be made to the
Operator within 14 days from the date of the IAS rejection notification.
If you do not make payment, the outstanding PCN will be passed to our appointed debt collection agency
for further action and all costs associated with this process will be added to the amount outstanding.

CB1979_2

again on advice told not to bother appealing to IAS..

so i sent a polite email on the off chance they may see the error of their ways in that they haven't sent me the hire agreement...

To Whom It May Concern, thank you for the reply however I’m disappointed you have rejected my appeal when you have obviously failed to comply with paragraphs 13/14 of POFA Schedule 4, as you have not sent all of the required documentation set out in said paragraphs.

As you know, it is your responsibility to forward to the hirer a copy of the hire agreement, you have failed to do this yet still try to hold the hirer liable.

I have been advised to complain to the DVLA for threatening the hirer of the vehicle that they are liable when you know this is incorrect as you haven’t supplied the information.

If you cancel the PCN, I shall take this no further, failure to cancel the PCN will result in my complaint to the DVLA, as well as I will start charging you for my time in which a claim will be filed against you for wasting my time.

Regards

they then replied today

Dear Mr xxxxxxx

Thank you for your recent email.

We have been provided with your details by Enterprise (See attachment) on the 24/05/17.

Unfortunately, your appeal has been unsuccessful and a detailed letter has been sent to confirm the rejection and to outline the options available to you.
One of the options is to appeal to the Independent Appeals Service if you are unhappy with the decision, the details of how to do this will be explained in the letter.

Please also see attached notice to hirer which advises the following:-

Under Schedule 4, paragraph 14 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 the hirer is responsible for
the payment of this PCN if it remains outstanding after 21 days beginning with the day after the date of this notice.

In the view of the operator, the parking charge notice was issued correctly and therefore payment is required.

Kind Regards,

Coupon-mad

Just ignore the IAS (known to forum posters to be a kangaroo court) and defend in court, should LPS try.

CB1979_2

EDIT just seen your reply coupon, thanks.

[STRIKE]so is it now just a matter of sitting it out and ignoring everything until they decide to take to court?[/STRIKE]

how do i go about complaining to the DVLA?

ideally i want this nipped in the bud as i'm currently working away from home and correspondence is being sent to my work.

any advice or help with letters greatly appreciated.

Umkomaas

CB1979 wrote: »

EDIT just seen your reply coupon, thanks.

[STRIKE]so is it now just a matter of sitting it out and ignoring everything until they decide to take to court?[/STRIKE]

how do i go about complaining to the DVLA?

ideally i want this nipped in the bud as i'm currently working away from home and correspondence is being sent to my work.

any advice or help with letters greatly appreciated.

Write to David Dunford, Manager of the Data Sharing Team.

david.dunford@dvla.gsi.gov.uk

Post your draft complaint and I'm sure people will chip in with critique/fine tuning.

Coupon-mad

Do you know what, as the photos are so diabolical and you want to try to get this cancelled, I am going to go out on a limb and suggest IAS after all!

Are there no CLOSE UP pics showing the car's dashboard, i.e. no proof of no permit?

The signs are badly drafted and say:

Either 'in a marked bay' OR 'with a permit displayed' so if there's no proof of a non-displayed permit then there is no proof of a contravention.

You can also add that the predatory practice of taking photos of a car whilst the driver is in it, over two minutes flat, using a hidden camera-cam on clothing, breaches the IPC CoP on 'predatory practices'.

And breaches the IPC CoP on grace periods. Quote the CoP each time and give IAS a go.

And add proof that ERAC sent them your details as the hirer (do NOT say driver!) and yet this operator failed to send you a Notice to Hirer in time, with or without the requisite documents from 13/14 of the POFA Schedule 4. So, they can't hold you liable because the driver cannot be assumed from a hirer's data. And nor can they revert to ERAC because ERAC have discharged liability by naming the hirer.

This one is possibly a case where the PPC might give up as their evidence is dire. Alternatively, you might actually be a rare IAS winner if there's no permit/dashboard close-up.

Third case scenario, you lose but who cares?! You still won't PAY them, don't have to!

Lodge an appeal to the IAS online, within 21 days of the rejection.

CB1979_2

This is every photo (with the additional two in OP)



FOR CLARITY THIS IS THE TIMELINE SO FAR...

snapped on the 07/05/17
LPS sent to ERAC (hire company) on the 09/05/17
ERAC stamped received on 15/05/17
ERAC replied to them 18/05/17
LPS received ERAC's reply 24/05/17
LPS sent PCN to hirer on 25/05/17
Hirer received PCN to Hirer on 30/05/17
Hirer appealed on 09/06/17
Appeal rejected on 15/06/17
Hirer emailed again to LPS on 28/06/17, stating again non-compliance due to no hire agreement being sent.
LPS emailed on 29/06/17, again stating tough.

Coupon-mad

Hahaha, no close-up of of the dashboard. Can't be sure there's no permit displayed, or that the driver isn't simply getting the permit out of a bag or glove-box at that point. Say so.

Draft an IAS appeal (I almost never say that!) based on the issues I mentioned - NOT based on a template POPLA appeal. Word it in your own words, not saying who was driving. Show us first.

CB1979_2

just for info - I've added the timeline of communication as well if it makes a difference.

Right, I'll give it a go, think I have 6 days left, but may have to wait until Monday as I'm mega rushed at work and I want to try and get it right with as much detail as possible.

speeding fines i can get my head around, this parking stuff is a bit more technical for me (first time i've had a parking ticket i'm actually challenging!)

thanks very much for taking the time to reply and sorry if i've overloaded with information!

CB1979_2

forgot to include their NtH, assuming this is compliant (apart from the bit about the hirer being liable)

this was first received on Monday 22nd from Enterprise (they are refunding me the £35 regardless anyway) -




and this received from LPS on 30/05/17-