Minster Baywatch Parking Charge

SN3D

Ok this was the response received today from MB:

Good Afternoon,



I understand where your apparent confusion has stemmed from.



A Notice to Keeper was sent to a hire company on the 26th of April 2017. This company provided us with your details and identified you as the driver. They remain the keeper, however, you are now the named driver under the agreement you made with them upon hiring the vehicle.



A Notice to Driver was then sent to you as a result of this on the 24th of May 2017. Driver is used here simply to represent that as the hirer of the vehicle in line with the hire agreement, either the terms of the hire were breached or you are the known driver. This letter then is termed a Notice to Hirer in the general sense, and that of it’s legal standing, but a Notice to Driver in that you are the known driver of the vehicle. Please refer to Paragraph 14, Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 for further clarification and peace of mind.



Please rest assured that as such you are liable for the charge and will continue to be so until such time as the charge value is satisfied.



Just to clarify it was not a hire car, but a car I lease from my employers.

Coupon-mad

Dear Minster Baywatch,

Your letter that you contend was sent in May (but was never served) was only termed a 'Notice to Hirer' in the general sense and cannot also be a Notice to Driver, nor can a ''known hirer'' be lawfully assumed to be a ''known driver''.

I understand where your apparent confusion has stemmed from. It must be difficult and confusing for ex-clampers to adjust to acting within the law, since your original business model was made a criminal offence in 2012. You have only had five years to understand a simple statute. Rest assured that consumer hearts bleed for you (or maybe not).

Thankyou for the suggestion that I refer to Paragraph 14, Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 for further clarification. This did indeed give me a great deal of peace of mind, not least because Minster Baywatch have failed to comply, and it is now far too late to send me the enclosures the statute requires.

Please rest assured that your (misleading as regards liability) statement: ''as such you are liable for the charge and will continue to be so until such time as the charge value is satisfied'' will now be reported to Mr Dunford at the DVLA, who can and will sanction rogue parking firms for suggesting a person is liable when they cannot be.

You had one job. To hold a hirer liable you merely needed to comply with the law (serve one letter with some mandatory enclosures, some statutory wording and meet a deadline). You've failed on all counts.

For your education, I reproduce para 14 below. You might like to ask someone to read it to you, for peace of mind:

Schedule 4 - Hire vehicles

14(1) If—
(a)the creditor is by virtue of paragraph 13(2) unable to exercise the right to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges mentioned in the notice to keeper, and
(b)the conditions mentioned in sub-paragraph (2) below are met,the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer.
(2)The conditions are that—
(a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph 13(2) and the notice to keeper;
(b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed; and
(c)the vehicle was not a stolen vehicle at the beginning of the period of parking to which the unpaid parking charges relate.
(3)In sub-paragraph (2)(a) “the relevant period” is the period of 21 days beginning with the day after that on which the documents required by paragraph 13(2) are given to the creditor.
(4)For the purposes of sub-paragraph (2)(c) a vehicle is to be presumed not to be a stolen vehicle at the material time, unless the contrary is proved.
(5)The notice to hirer must—
(a)inform the hirer that by virtue of this paragraph any unpaid parking charges (being parking charges specified in the notice to keeper) may be recovered from the hirer;
(b)refer the hirer to the information contained in the notice to keeper;
(c)warn the hirer that if, after the period of 21 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice to hirer is given, the amount of unpaid parking charges referred to in the notice to keeper under paragraph 8(2)(f) or 9(2)(f) (as the case may be) has not been paid in full, the creditor will (if any applicable requirements are met) have the right to recover from the hirer so much of that amount as remains unpaid;
(d)inform the hirer of any discount offered for prompt payment and the arrangements for the resolution of disputes or complaints that are available;
(e)identify the creditor and specify how and to whom payment may be made; and
(f)specify the date on which the notice is sent (if it is sent by post) or given (in any other case).
(6)The documents mentioned in sub-paragraph (2)(a) must be given by—
(a)handing them to the hirer;
(b)leaving them at an address which is either—
(i)an address specified in the statement of liability mentioned in paragraph 13(2)(c) as an address at which documents may be given to the hirer; or
(ii)an address at which documents relating to civil proceedings could properly be served on the hirer under Civil Procedure Rules; or
(c)sending them by post to such an address so that they are delivered to that address within the relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (2)(a).
(7)In sub-paragraph (5)(d) the reference to arrangements for the resolution of disputes or complaints includes—
(a)any procedures offered by the creditor for dealing informally with representations by the hirer about the notice or any matter contained in it; and
(b)any arrangements under which disputes or complaints (however described) may be referred by the hirer to independent adjudication or arbitration.

Umkomaas

For your education, I reproduce para 14 below. You might like to ask someone to read it to you, for peace of mind:

Just dabbing off the coffee splutterings on my iPad. PMSL. :rotfl:

SN3D

*Bump*

Thank you for all your previous replies, much appreciated.
However, after thinking they'd given up I've been bought back to earth when in the post Saturday morning arrived a claim form from Gladstones solicitors. With all their fees added and court fees they now want £237.53.

Any further help will be most appreciated

Rob

Coupon-mad

This will be fun, a defence from a hirer, to a claim from a firm who failed to serve the mandatory documents to hold you liable, and denied you a right to appeal, as well.

Did Gladstones even bother to warn you with a LBCCC first? If not, that also needs to go into the defence.

Start by reading post #2 of the NEWBIES thread, all about court, and do the AOS online first.

SN3D

Thanks for the reply, AOS completed earlier so will now await the response.

Lamilad

AOS completed earlier so will now await the response.

You don't get a response to completing the AOS. The ball is still, very much, in your court.

You must draft a defence after reading post #2 of the NEWBIES thread (and all included links) then show it here for review and advice.

Defence must be submitted by day 33 from the issue date on the claim form. Best get cracking!

Coupon-mad

SN3D wrote: »

Thanks for the reply, AOS completed earlier so will now await the response.

:eek:

Pardon?!! What are you waiting for? OMG please read what to do when.

nosferatu1001

Indeed, newbies thread, written by C-M, is where you MUST go.

What was the date of issue? Once acknowledged you have 33 days from THAT date for the court to RECIEVE your printed, signed, scanned to pdf and EMAILED full and complete defence.

Show us your defence ASAP.

trefoiled

Hi there,
apologies to jump on this thread, but I'm not sure where I stand with a ticket with the same company.

I received a letter on the 11th of December charging me £60 for parking in a private car park in York on the 2nd of November, it contained several photographs of my car.
Basically, I was loading on a narrow road and pulled into a two space car bay to avoid blocking the road. I did not notice any signs at the time and as I was in and out I saw no problem, I didn't notice anyone around and no ticket was applied to my car so I assumed all to be fine.

Do I have any grounds to appeal as I was loading? I have been back to the bay and the sign is very clear but why wasn't a ticket applied to my car. Any help would be much appreciated!