SDLT forms

j.a.mcguire

My conveyancer has stuck on an extra £85+VAT to my bill just prior the completion of the purchase of my first home. The fee is for the completion of the Stamp Duty Land Tax form (SDLT).

The additional sum wasn't present in the original summary of charges prior to my undertaking his services, but it was mentioned in point 8 font amongst 2 pages of terms-and-conditions that unless I expressly tell him not to, he will complete the SDLT and charge me for the pleasure.

During my original conversation with the solicitor one of the points he raised was that he discloses all costs up-front, unlike other firms who may have hidden charges.

Is it common that this would be charged over-and-above the conveyancing fees or would any good solicitor include it rolled-up in the conveyancing fees? I've seen this practice described as charlatanism, is this a fair description?

My conveyancer told me I could fill in the form myself as long as I have it on his desk prior to completion (3 days from now!).

This isn't going to happen as from what I can tell, I have to apply to receive an SDLT1 form from HMRC via post (hello 2017). Complete and return the SDLT1 form to HMRC via post and then await the SDLT5.

Do I need to have the SDLT5 prior to completion?

G_M

1) a decent solicitor will complete the SDLT form as part of his basic conveyancing servive

2) many 'cheaper' outfits charge extra (that's how they give cheap quotes).

3) in this case it sems the charge was listed as an extra in the T&C, so you can either DIY or pay him to do it

4) you can order the form from the Gov website here

5) HMRC requires SDLT to be paid within 30 days of Completion

6) however many lenders insist the SDLT form is completed by their solicitor - are you getting a mortgage? Is your solicitor also acting for the lender? Is he still giving you the option?

j.a.mcguire

Thanks for your response.

In regards to point 5. Does that mean I will pay SDLT directly to HMRC or will my conveyancer continue to pay on my behalf?

With regards point 6, yes the purchase will be mortgaged. I wasn't aware anyone would be acting on behalf of the lender? My conveyancer is giving my the option to complete the SDLT form myself however he stipulated it must be presented to him prior to completion, that's not going to be possible.

G_M

HMRC don't care who sends it, you or your conveyancer.

Of course your lender is employing a solicitor, to
a) ensure the property they are lending on is genuinely owned by the seller, &
b) properly transferred into your ownership and
c) register their Charge against the property

In many (most?) cases the buyer and lender use the same solicitor as it is easier and cheaper than duplication. But this means your solicitor has two clients and must satisfy both.

My conveyancer is giving my the option to complete the SDLT form myself however he stipulated it must be presented to him prior to [STRIKE]completion[/STRIKE]submission?,

I imagine that is so that he can satisfy his other client (your lender) that SDLT has been properly dealt with.

j.a.mcguire

Thanks for your input. The submission of the contract bundle isn't due to take place until the day of completion. Which from what I can tell from the Law Society conveyancing protocol is a breach of their protocols.

Reading through the T&Cs of my engagement with my conveyancer, it's now my obligation to pay HMRC for the SDLT. Really leaves me wondering, what does a conveyancer actually do?

His anti-fraud check, was a 2 second form whereby he asked me where the deposit was coming from, ticked 8 boxes and signed it. That's literally all I've seen him do.

da_rule

When you say it's your obligation to pay HMRC for the SDLT, do you mean you have to physically send a cheque to HMRC (which would be unusual) or that you have to pay it to your conveyancer who will then forward it to HMRC? Obviously stamp duty is a tax on the purchaser so you will be liable for paying it.

I've just checked the Council of Mortgage Lenders Handbook and had a look at Nationwide as an example. They will not allow a solicitor representing them to release the mortgage funds unless the solicitor is holding a completed SDLT return and the required funds.

The SDLT1 is relatively straight forward to fill out so you could do it. But obviously if you make a mistake you could delay completion would could then put you in breach of contract.

In terms of what else a conveyancer does, they will have drafted the transfer deed, investigated the title to ensure that it is good and mortgageable, investigated the other documents (SPIF etc) and hopefully reported to you on them. They also ensure that all of the mortgage funds are lined up ready for completion.

davidmcn

j.a.mcguire wrote: »

His anti-fraud check, was a 2 second form whereby he asked me where the deposit was coming from, ticked 8 boxes and signed it. That's literally all I've seen him do.

Generally speaking, solicitors do more behind the scenes and aren't going to bore you with all the details. Anti-money-laundering checks can, for example, include online checks against your name/address, and then they'll only come back to you for more information if necessary. They might need more evidence of where the deposit is from once you actually transfer it.

G_M

As others have said, conveyancers do a lot more that you are clearly unaware of. Some of it will be reported to you (eg copies of relevant documents with covenants highlighted/explained), and some will be invisible (eg online ID checks).

Check your local library for a DIY book on conveyancing. It IS possible to do yourself, but the fact that you need a whole book to show you how to do it demonstrates there is quite a lot involved!

And that's only for straight-forward cases. Check out some law books on conveyancing, which are gargantuan + I guarantee you will find unintelligible, and you'll see that more complex situations can involve a lot of work. And knowledge.

j.a.mcguire

Victory!

He relented after I explained the paper process regarding the SDLT forms and the time it was likely to take, he's doing the SDLT for me inclusive of the original quoted sum! I had also mentioned in my email to him that he was meant to provide full disclosure of costs, and his T&C's could be open to interpretation as to whether the cost should be inclusive or not.

But I do quote:

"to avoid any sort of carry on"

and also

"I don't come to work for the money" (I interpret the next part of this sentence to be: unlike you, you peasant).

j.a.mcguire

da_rule wrote: »

When you say it's your obligation to pay HMRC for the SDLT, do you mean you have to physically send a cheque to HMRC (which would be unusual) or that you have to pay it to your conveyancer who will then forward it to HMRC? Obviously stamp duty is a tax on the purchaser so you will be liable for paying it.

I've just checked the Council of Mortgage Lenders Handbook and had a look at Nationwide as an example. They will not allow a solicitor representing them to release the mortgage funds unless the solicitor is holding a completed SDLT return and the required funds.

The SDLT1 is relatively straight forward to fill out so you could do it. But obviously if you make a mistake you could delay completion would could then put you in breach of contract.

In terms of what else a conveyancer does, they will have drafted the transfer deed, investigated the title to ensure that it is good and mortgageable, investigated the other documents (SPIF etc) and hopefully reported to you on them. They also ensure that all of the mortgage funds are lined up ready for completion.

Hi from what I can tell from the T&C's I would have been paying HMRC directly, the wording on the HMRC site suggests this would be required in order to obtain the SDLT5 certificate? They also provide bank details online so you can make a direct bank transfer.

I'm hoping what you and GM mentioned regarding the lenders requirements to have SDLT in place forced his hand to provide the service to me fully inclusive. This is what he should have done from the get-go.

Surprising that this is a requirement however as HMRC give you 30 days to pay.