Quoting for new loft hatch and boarding

wantonnoodle

We're in a tricky position. We want to have our loft hatch moved so we can put a ladder in, and the loft boarded out (roughly 120 square foot), preferably with lighting. A purlin prevents us from using the current hatch location.

We've had 5 people out to quote. The first 2 were from loft ladder and boarding "specialists" - these were around the £650 mark, however only one of these was prepared to give the quote to us in writing; the other seemed a bit dodgy so we've discounted him (he wanted to put the new hatch slap bang in the middle of the room, and seemed generally quite arrogant and didn't listen to our preferences, while others were happy to keep it to a corner near the door). They both quoted for metal ladders.

The next one was a general joiner, who quoted £750, seemed lacking in confidence and was talking about buying materials from the local DIY stores - not what I would expect from a tradesman.

The last 2 were both local building concerns. These both quoted around the £1100 mark. But they both looked at including making good the old loft hatch, which the others didn't.

The joiner and the builders were all quoting for timber ladders, which in my view are nicer (although a metal ladder wouldn't be a deal breaker).

The problem is, we now are not sure which quote to pick and if any of them are reasonable as there is such a wide spread. I guess part of the problem is we don't know what sort of a cost would be generally associated with closing up the old hatch so we don't know if the builders are pricing fairly from that perspective. My partner is thinking the first quote of £650 is the one we should go for, but I'm leaning toward the builders (though I didn't want to pay that much).

Does anyone have any idea what would be a fair quote for this? We are in the Greater Manchester area if this is of any help.

Furts

A few pointers. Thousands of builders use the local DIY store because B&Q do a Tradecard and have a trade counter tucked away in a discrete corner. So do not rule out this approach.

Guidance and good practice is no loft hatch should be in a dangerous location such as above stairs or over a banister. In a corner of a room if obstructing a door would also be bad practice.

The middle of a room could be good practice if it maximises the headroom when you go up into the loft. Ideally you want at least 2 metres headroom when you step into the loft and your access should be positioned with this in mind.

I have two loft ladders. One metal and one timber. I prefer the timber, but in terms of installation there is more adjustment and practicality with the (far older) metal one.

Boarding out has a knock on effect on ceiling timber loadings, ventilation, condensation, insulation and membranes. None of this is trivial and becomes a source of design/practical thinking. You mention none of your requirements so I cannot comment here. Equally, you do not mention what your builders have said here. This is worrying, because my default setting says it has not been considered!

wantonnoodle

To answer your points, the location of the hatch would be in the same place with all of them. The main difference was the orientation. The room is to be a bedroom, to have the orientation so the ladder drops into the middle of the room would make it impossible to get a bed in the room, defeating the point of maximising space usage.

As for your point about DIY stores having trade points, I get that, but when you have a tradesman telling you its likely to be £200 - £250 just for the hatch and ladder when you've seen both Homebase and the local timber yard selling ladders for £100 - £150, I find it hard to trust their judgement.

In terms of loading, every single quote included building a suspended framework above the insulation, so I would expect that load has been considered, so I can't use that as a differentiator.

Furts

You may be harsh regarding the ladder price. My ladder was around £120 at a special offer trade promotion. It is OK but could be vastly better. However for the price it is acceptable. How do you know what the joiners have seen, and how can you compare this with Homebase? Further, my ladder would be useless if I lived in a Victorian home because I doubt it would reach the ceiling. The spring mechanism is crude, it goes off with a thwang and so on. Have you specified exactly which manufacturer, which model, and which length? If not how can you comment here regarding price?

There is vastly more to boarding than raising the floor. This has nothing to do with loft loading and you might be overloading your ceilings. Roof ventilation and air flow, breathability, and membranes also all have to be considered. Unless you have drawn up a detailed specification how can you compare quotes? Equally if you get all this wrong expect adverse comments in any survey undertaken by future purchasers. That is provided you have not suffered the consequences before this.

wantonnoodle

Furts I am not a surveyor, engineer or any kind of expert on loading or buildings. Hence why I am getting quotes from tradespeople and not doing it myself! If I am paying someone to do a job, especially when its something they do regularly, I expect them to take responsibility for identifyimg and resolving any of these issues as they are the expert not me. Plus I am not talking about a full loft conversion, just a few feet of boards in order to store a few boxes.

This forum used to be sucb a useful place for advice, instead I feel I am being criticised for asking a simple question about something I am unsure about.

Furts

You are being given useful, professional, advice which is also correct.

You have asked about quotes and in essence the reply from this Forum will be who can say what is the appropriate price when it is not known what is required/specified. It follows that the quotes may not be comparable with each other if you have not explained precisely what has to be quoted.

Your loft ladder is a prime example of the issue. £200 - £250 could be the correct price for the ladder. But if you require a £100 model from Homebase you must specify this, However you cannot expect a tradesman to charge that to you. There will be a mark up of perhaps 20%+. But bear in mind your tradesman could be quoting for this cheapest of ladders then saying £200-250 because this includes the fitting cost. You have not clarified any of this so what do you expect to hear?

You have asked for advice and I have tried to flag up key points. It seems you do not appreciate such points being made.

wantonnoodle

Furts - all we have asked for in terms of a quote was:
"We want a new loft hatch with ladder in the spare bedroom, the usable area of the loft boarding out and a light installing".

Most of the tradespeople we have had quote advertise loft hatch and boarding services locally, so we were of the understanding that it was a "standard" job. The only difference in their response is that the 2 builders also included in their quotes the closing up of the original loft hatch.

We don't particularly care where the ladder comes from - my remark was that one joiner reckoned that the cheapest ladder would be £200 cost price (he supplies materials at cost price), while we'd observed that there were some available for significantly less than that. From talking to friends and family it would seem that their experience of tradespeople quoting an inflated "cost price" is that they tend to then also overcharge for labour. Given this joiner was £100 more expensive than the other 2 joiners we'd had quote, we were sceptical that this was the case in this situation.

Our other problem is that none of the quotes have been broken down by materials vs labour - as this is sold as a package job around here, its just a total price that is given for the whole job.