Cost to replace a 3m x 2m brick wall?

esuhl

There's a brick wall in my rear garden that joins on to my neighbour's detached house. It's a single layer of "normal" red bricks, not fancy aesthetic ones. It's 2m high, and just about 3.2m wide.

The mortar has cracked near the base, and I can wobble it slightly, so I guess it needs to be pulled down and rebuilt.

I just wondered if anyone had a ballpark guestimate of how much that might cost?

Also... how do I know if it's my wall or my neighbours? I assumed it was theirs, as it's on the right of the house (looking from front to back), and connects in line with the wall on their house. :-/

Furts

I do not know your precise details, but if you are saying the wall measures 100mm from the front face to the back face then you may have a serious problem. The fact that there is cracked/damaged mortar and it can be wobbled suggests it is dangerous and it is also structurally unsound. No garden wall should be built anywhere near 2000 high without being strengthened to 225 wide, and considering piers being introduced. To this add careful choice of bricks, careful choice of mortar and careful detailing from damp and frost both at the top and at the base of the wall.

Pure intuition but I would not be surprised if you start again with new foundation blockwork, built on a proper foundation at a proper depth, followed by a correctly designed and correctly built wall.

if so, then it is futile asking what it would cost to replace your wall. Who can say what your costs will be.

esuhl

Thanks. Yes -- I did think the design was a bit "risky". Other than a layer of mortar between my neighbour's house and the wall, it's essentially free-standing.

We're on a hill, so the wall is 2m high on my neighbour's side, but 1.7m on my side.

A car hit a wall that backs on to our block of garages a while back, and it took years to have it replaced as the design was inherently unsafe (and no one would admit liability for the original design). There have been a lot of signs of shoddy corner-cutting in the build of these homes.

Maybe I can convince the neighbour that a 30cm wall their side, with a fence panel on top will be good enough. (That'll be cheaper!)

I don't suppose you'd know where I could find out the building regs for garden walls? I had a quick look, but couldn't find anything relevant.

Thanks again :-)

Furts

Garden walls are excluded from the Buildings Regulations. But yours is a retaining wall because you refer to 300 being retained. This means it should be designed. Here it should, in practical terms, be 225mm thick as a minimum to retain this 300mm. I think a 100mm wall should not exceed 600mm high. (Just by memory - others may chip in here). Your height is such that I would be defaulting to 225mm thick with piers as well. (Victorian house walls were 225mm up to ceiling height of perhaps 2400-2700 but remember these should be tied at the top to the house structure and they have return walls coming off them for stability). All the sort of stuff found in principles of building type text books aimed at building students. I should have all sorts on this but nothing to hand as I type!

If you look in the Regulations you will find garage walls at 100mm with piers for stiffening, but this is typically a braced structure tied in the roof. Your garden wall is free standing, retaining and may be more exposed to the wind. So be careful!

PasturesNew

Knock knock .... "hello, thought I'd mention that I think your wall's a bit wobbly - and if it were my wall I'd want to know soonest."

Then stay quiet.... absolutely quiet .... and see if they pick up the mantle of ownership

esuhl

Furts wrote: »

Garden walls are excluded from the Buildings Regulations. But yours is a retaining wall because you refer to 300 being retained. This means it should be designed. Here it should, in practical terms, be 225mm thick as a minimum to retain this 300mm. I think a 100mm wall should not exceed 600mm high. (Just by memory - others may chip in here). Your height is such that I would be defaulting to 225mm thick with piers as well. (Victorian house walls were 225mm up to ceiling height of perhaps 2400-2700 but remember these should be tied at the top to the house structure and they have return walls coming off them for stability). All the sort of stuff found in principles of building type text books aimed at building students. I should have all sorts on this but nothing to hand as I type!

If you look in the Regulations you will find garage walls at 100mm with piers for stiffening, but this is typically a braced structure tied in the roof. Your garden wall is free standing, retaining and may be more exposed to the wind. So be careful!

Thanks. What do you mean when you say that the wall needs to be "designed"? I found this page, and it seems that building regulations don't apply, so... in theory I could rebuild as-is...?

https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Retaining_walls

There's really very little cross-wind here. The gardens are small, there are tall trees at the back, and the wall has lasted 40 years. But I do like to do things properly and by the book where safety is concerned.

And, to be honest, if the current design is "unsafe", it would be easier to convince my neighbour that it could be replaced with a fence-panel.

PasturesNew wrote: »

Knock knock .... "hello, thought I'd mention that I think your wall's a bit wobbly - and if it were my wall I'd want to know soonest."

Then stay quiet.... absolutely quiet .... and see if they pick up the mantle of ownership

Ha! Unfortunately my neighbour has done exactly that! I just said, "Oh, okay. I'll replace it. Bet that's gonna be expensive."

Ten minutes later, I though to myself, "Now, hang on a minute...!" Doh!

The cracking has actually occurred just below the bottom of my side of the wall, so I wasn't aware of it. But there's crack along most of the wall about 20cm up on their side, and the bricks are crumbling and disintegrating where water drains from my garden and flows through the crack onto their patio.

I get on well with all the neighbours here, so I'm not going to wind anyone up by doing the legal minimum. I'm sure it's something we can discuss maturely and come to some arrangement.

But... if it's not my wall and I pay for it, I want to make damned sure I collect all those "good neighbour" brownie points I'll be owed!

Furts

esuhl wrote: »

Thanks. What do you mean when you say that the wall needs to be "designed"? I found this page, and it seems that building regulations don't apply, so... in theory I could rebuild as-is...?

https://www.designingbuildings.co.uk/wiki/Retaining_walls

There's really very little cross-wind here. The gardens are small, there are tall trees at the back, and the wall has lasted 40 years. But I do like to do things properly and by the book where safety is concerned.

And, to be honest, if the current design is "unsafe", it would be easier to convince my neighbour that it could be replaced with a fence-panel.

You are retaining very little, but your wall is high. In essence a wall takes its load downwards but your retaining is trying to push against the wall. Damp proofing, and weep holes are two items that would be in the design as would the thickness. If you were a developer building new homes then you would need a Structural Engineer - you would need a design and you cannot just say to a bricklayer "build me a wall there." Many brickies would fail here because they build, they do not consider structural matters.

By all means crib a design from a book but it has to be a brick wall and not gabions, or whatever, as shown on your link..

esuhl

Furts wrote: »

You are retaining very little, but your wall is high. In essence a wall takes its load downwards but your retaining is trying to push against the wall. Damp proofing, and weep holes are two items that would be in the design as would the thickness. If you were a developer building new homes then you would need a Structural Engineer - you would need a design and you cannot just say to a bricklayer "build me a wall there." Many brickies would fail here because they build, they do not consider structural matters.

By all means crib a design from a book but it has to be a brick wall and not gabions, or whatever, as shown on your link..

Oh god, this "simple wall" is starting to sound like a nightmare problem. I only skimmed that link.

I'm not looking to "crib a design" -- I'm quite happy to get the experts in. I just like to know what I'm dealing with first. I've had a long and arduous history of incompetent/shoddy/dodgy tradesmen.

---

Looking at the "title deeds", the boundary appears to be a straight line, as shown below. Presumably my neighbour owns right up to the edge of the bricks on his own house, and right up to my side of the bricks on the wall, thus it is on his land, and he owns the wall...?

.
            .
My back     . <-fence
garden      .
            .
            |
            | <-garden wall
            |
|-------|   |-------|
|       | P |       |
| My    | a | Next  |
| House | t | door  |
|       | h |       |
|-------|   |-------|
        .   .
My front.   . Neighbour's
garden  .   . front
        .   . garden
        .   .
--------.   .--------

Furts

I do not know about your deeds, but there has been a principle to retaining walls I have ever built. That is the person with the higher ground owns the wall/it is built on their land. This is logical because it retains their garden and stops it falling onto the neighbours land. Put another way, why should your neighbour be responsible for holding up your garden?

You could get a Structural Engineer to design the wall if you wish. Personally I would just be building a wall without such involvement, but aiming to do things properly. It is a very short wall at around 3 metres long so it is not complex - say a 225 wall with a pier to stiffen each end, and one mid way to be belt and braces.