Fixed-price job with unexpected issues

kat74

I got an electrician to come and fit 2 outside lights, the quote was £80 - he expected it to be a morning's work.

There's been a number of issues - which neither of us were aware of in advance - that mean that it's taking much longer than anticipated.
Firstly, he discovered that the wiring for the light at the back door is done unconventionally (it's an old house, with various small extensions).
Secondly, the light for the front of the house is faulty (as confirmed in a conversation between the electrician and the supplier today).

It was the electrician's second visit today, and he has to come back for a third time when I've received the replacement fitting net week.
Today, I asked what my bill was so far, and offered a part-payment. He said that if he had got things working today the bill would be £130 but he declined a part-payment, saying that he's not actually got anything working yet and all he's done is create dust. :rotfl:

What is the normal thing to do in this situation?
I'm happy to pay more than the original £80, as it's taken much longer than expected, but I don't know what's standard when a fixed-price job balloons like this.

Do I pay by his hourly rate, which will be at least double the original quote?
Is dealing with unexpected wiring something that normally gets factored in to quote?
What's the normal way to go in this situation?
thanks

ST1991

He sounds like an honest guy. I would agree to pay what he asks for (130), and say that you would use him for future work/recommend to friends.

Fixed price is exactly that, even for a small job.
If you'd agreed a fixed price for a kitchen and it took an extra few days so they charged more i'm sure we'd all be pretty unhappy with it.

moneyistooshorttomention

Whether you have to pay him extra depends on whether he gave you:

a. An "estimate" price - in which case you do

OR

b. A "written quotation" price - in which case you don't and he is legally only entitled to be paid exactly what he quoted you.

If it was a "written quotation" price - then it's entirely your choice as to whether to pay him more because of the unexpected work.

I've had both "estimate" prices and "written quotation" prices over the years. With an "estimate" one it has pretty often been the case I've had to pay more than the figure I was told. With "written quotation" prices - there has only been one try-on to charge me more (by an electrician in fact some years back) - and I duly pointed out he hadnt come across anything unexpected and it was a "written quotation" price and therefore was fixed.

With a recent "written quotation" price (ie for my new kitchen I've just had done) then, in the event, the kitchen firm did seem to have overlooked or "overlooked" a couple of elements. They had to ask my permission to charge me more on some bits and forget about charging me more on other bits that they had to do and should have taken account of in the first place.

ComicGeek

But he has come across unexpected issues - first the nature of the existing wiring, and secondly the problems with the light fitting you supplied. You've admitted that neither of you were aware of either issue, so they must be considered as unexpected.

Even if it's a fixed price quotation, I wouldn't expect these unexpected issues to be covered. It's different if a light fitting that he supplied doesn't work, but it reads that you bought and supplied the light.

brightontraveller

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

Whether you have to pay him extra depends on whether he gave you:

a. An "estimate" price - in which case you do

OR

b. A "written quotation" price - in which case you don't and he is legally only entitled to be paid exactly what he quoted you.

If it was a "written quotation" price - then it's entirely your choice as to whether to pay him more because of the unexpected work.

I've had both "estimate" prices and "written quotation" prices over the years. With an "estimate" one it has pretty often been the case I've had to pay more than the figure I was told. With "written quotation" prices - there has only been one try-on to charge me more (by an electrician in fact some years back) - and I duly pointed out he hadnt come across anything unexpected and it was a "written quotation" price and therefore was fixed.

With a recent "written quotation" price (ie for my new kitchen I've just had done) then, in the event, the kitchen firm did seem to have overlooked or "overlooked" a couple of elements. They had to ask my permission to charge me more on some bits and forget about charging me more on other bits that they had to do and should have taken account of in the first place.

T and C (The contract )that defines whats included/ not etc Not it being a ""written quotation" or"estimate" common mistake

teneighty

Generally there is no such thing as a "fixed price" job in the building industry as there are too many unknown factors which only come to light once the work starts and things are removed or opened up as this example clearly illustrates.

The general rule is that the extras must be genuine things that the building contractor could not have been aware of at the time of the quote and was not included in the quote. In this case it would probably have been unreasonable for the electrician to have known the existing electrical installation was sub-standard when he prepared his quote, likewise the defective fitting supplied by the customer.

The cost of the extra work is usually calculated on a pro-rata basis. So in this case if the electrician quoted £80 for a half days work then every extra half day should be charged at £80.

In this case the electrician appears to be very reasonable if he is having to make 3 visits and is only charging £130.

kat74

Ok, thanks. I'm happy to pay £130 so far - I'm just a little worried about what the bill might continue to balloon to after the 3rd visit!
I think another visit will be in order to fix the under-lying wiring issues, but that's separate job.

Yes, I supplied the light fitting; it was new and from a reputable supplier so there was no reason to suspect it would be faulty. Just one of those annoying things.
The electrician is a decent guy; i'd be happy to recommend him.

Thanks for the responses.
.

kat74

Oh, and regarding the half-day; this was mentioned as a logistical thing, rather than a cost factor. It was along the lines of "the cost to fit 2 lights is £80 - will you be in for about half a day while I do it".

ComicGeek

kat74 wrote: »

Ok, thanks. I'm happy to pay £130 so far - I'm just a little worried about what the bill might continue to balloon to after the 3rd visit!
I think another visit will be in order to fix the under-lying wiring issues, but that's separate job.

He sounds reasonable - why not give him a call before the next visit to confirm the final cost for completing the lights, he should be able to confirm this now. Then you don't have to worry about that part.

And is the underlying wiring issue something that definitely needs to be done? If it was that important/urgent then I would have expected him to fix that before fitting the new lights. If it's not, then perhaps something that you could do another time.

lstar337

ComicGeek wrote: »

But he has come across unexpected issues - first the nature of the existing wiring, and secondly the problems with the light fitting you supplied. You've admitted that neither of you were aware of either issue, so they must be considered as unexpected.

I thought that if you quoted a fixed price then you added a little on to cover unexpected issues?

That way if the job is straight forward then you gain a little, if it is a pain then you lose a little. Over a few jobs it balances out.

Don't see the point of a fixed price otherwise.

baldelectrician

If he supplied the light and it is faulty then it's up to him to sort that (that's why companies add a margin to materials)
As you supplied the light then you are responsible


On the whole scale of things the electrician is being reasonable


I NEVER give fixed price quotes for such things I always say it should take 'x' time and my hourly rate is 'y'.
If things escalate then I stop and ask the client what they want to do before proceeding


I also prefer to supply materials (unless a light etc is decorative) to help prevent this type of stuff.