UKPC parking charge on a COMPANY VEHICLE - I am not the owner

Blondesuzie

Hi, I have had a scroll through the threads in depth and can't find another post similar, I apologise if someone has asked this already but I am desperate for some advice please...

I live in a residential court and UKPC manage the parking to stop shoppers parking in our carpark. I have a valid permit and a marked space, which is all linked to my flat. I received 3 tickets over the space of 3 weeks, all because I had sold my car and was using 2 company vehicles registered to my Dad but owned by Ford Motor Co. The permit is not registered to the car, it is registered to my flat and the bay I park in, which I was parked in as normal. I couldn't attach the pass to the window as I had previously in my Audi and so rested it on the dash. They started ticketing me saying the permit wasn't displayed, which it was. I rang Mainstay who are the property managers and who I am supposed to go through to contact they put me on an exemptions list whilst discussing with UKPC and then I got two more tickets, which now amounts to 5 tickets in a month! So I waited for the days that you mention on your thread and appealed 3 of the tickets on ONE JOINT APPEAL. I had left two of the tickets in one of the company vehicles and so had no reference to do a separate appeal so I appealed all 3 of the original tickets on one appeal. (I even contacted Mainstay to contact UKPC for the ticket references so I could enter them into their automated system and do 3 separate appeals and they couldn't find them!!!!). Anyway so I mentioned the dates and registrations and appealed all 3 attaching my valid permit. They wrote back to me in reply to only ONE APPEAL and offered I pay £15 as they could see I had a pass and would let me pay less. They had ignored the other appeal on the letter though so again Mainstay made contact to try and ask them why. No reply. And in the time I was waiting they passed it to DRP who then started writing to me.

My problem is that yes Mainstay are now making a complaint to them and managed to get the 2 so far revoked that were on an exemptions list at the time, but the 2 that I could not do separate appeals for are now also with DRP too but as they have not associated me with the tickets (as ignored my joint appeal for all 3 tickets and only replied about the one), they are writing to Ford Motor Co. and threatening court action. So could I please have some advice. I am waiting for Mainstay to continue fighting against these 3 tickets but 2 are now in the process of letters from DRP to my old work, which is obviosuly causing my Dad considerable stress also!!!!!

Do I contact them and tell them I was the driver as like the other one and let them take me to court or just ignore??? Please advise.

Also if I then have 3 tickets for £160 each that they want now, could I really be expected to pay that in court? So £480!!!! For parking in my own bay with my permit that they say they couldn't quite see (the pics show it wasn't clear below the black screen protector, but they know I have a pass) :-( I cannot afford this...:(

Umkomaas

Ignore DRP they are mere irritants, they have no powers to pursue you, other than to send threatening letters. You need to tell your father too that they should cause him no stress as there is nothing to get stressed over.

Looks like you're past any formal appeals stages, so it's a case of riding out the DRP letter blizzard (after about 6 months they give up on it).

It also seems that UKPC recognise they've made a bit of a mess and I doubt they'd consider pursuing you through the small claims court. Come back if you receive a Letter Before Action from UKPC (not DRP because they can't sue you) or real court papers.

Meanwhile keep on at Mainstay who seem (unlike many managing agents) to want to help you. Just to bolster your case with them, let them see the following, which shows the sort of company they have let loose around residents cars.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2711460/Give-sites-good-banging-The-wardens-3k-bonuses-urged-bosses-issue-scores-parking-tickets-day.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3229165/Is-PROOF-private-parking-firms-scamming-motorists-Drivers-say-timings-photos-doctored-legally-parked-cars-issued-fines.html

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/parking-company-workers-doctored-photos-6420974

Ask them if they conducted a full due diligence test before they engaged UKPC. If they did, why on earth did they contract with a bunch of charlatans? If they didn't, they need to extricate themselves urgently from what will become an increasing problem for residents.

Why not post some flyers through letterboxes asking other residents if they are having problems with UKPC. Form an action group to press Mainstay further, you might be pushing at a half-open door.

Edna_Basher

With regard to the 2 PCNs that UKPC / DRP are hassling Ford Motor Company for, it would be a good idea to take them out of the loop just in case they panic and pay.

If your former employer can provide your Dad with the reference numbers of the 2 PCNs, he can then write to UKPC to notify them that he is the vehicle's "keeper" for the purpose of the corresponding definition under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and to request that all future correspondence is addressed to him, making it clear that now that it has been established that neither Ford Motor Company nor your old company is the vehicle's keeper (as defined under POFA), they cannot be liable for these PCNs.

To save your Dad the hassle of dealing with any further threatograms from UKPC / DRP he could quote your address as an address for service rather than his own.

Blondesuzie

Thank you so much both! I will do just that, get my address to DRP so they don't keep sending to Ford Motor Co. and then ignore. This is a weight of my mind.

And I will indeed flyer at my flats. There are hundreds of us and of the 4 neighbours I know, 2 have had issues so imagine how many others there are! I also know the Director of Mainstay who lives at the flats has also recently been ticketed so that should push Mainstay into further action!

Coupon-mad

info@drpl.co.uk

is the email to communicate with DRPlus, just to give them your address as 'keeper/lessee' of the car. You MUST state their 'reference' as well as the PCN number (not just the PCN number, that means nothing to stupid old DRP).

Do not say who was driving.

Here's one written before:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/72588744#Comment_72588744

these ones could be the same place, as it's UKPC and Mainstay:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5603250

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5591316

Blondesuzie

Thank you for that, very helpful! I will post on their threads and see how they got on.

Does it make a difference that I didn't do 3 individual appeals? They have only noted one as I put them all together on one of their forms as I didn't have the ticket references.

Also what is POPLA and should I be doing that now? I am at the stage where they have passed it to DRP and they're nearly at court stage (well it will go back to UKPC first I know). So is it too late to do POPLA? Sorry if this is a dumb question

Umkomaas

POPLA is the 2nd stage part of the appeal process. The nearest you would have had to an independent asssessment of your cases. We win over 90% of cases we help at POPLA.

It appears you are too late to appeal there, but before cinfirming that assumption, could you give us the date of each parking event that caused a ticket to be issued?

[Deleted User]

You're not necessarily anywhere close to the court stage (although I can see why DRP may have scared you into assuming the same).

1. You had a permit and were in your own spot.
2. Your lease likely permits you to have uninterrupted enjoyment of a designated parking space
3. With a number if tickets already cancelled the PPC must be aware that the outstanding ones are similarly vulnerable and unlikely to succeed
4. Whatever DRP say (and they love to quote a bit of case law here and there), they are a debt collector only. They are not regulated to provide legal advice are unable to provide legal advice to the PVP to issue court proceedings any more than you might advise them not to.

Having tried to appeal all of them, I would now adopt a wait and see approach (having provided a suitable correspondence address as the person dealing with the matter (not the driver) assuming that more than one person is insured on the vehicle.

Blondesuzie

Thank you again for all the advice.

They were all in March. So probably too late. I had no idea oops! Is that a big failing that I've missed that?

I will email DRP just to let them know to address me. Technically I am not the keeper, it's a lease company vehicle that my dad leased and I'm insured as a family member. Is that still ok? Ford Motor co. are technically the owner, should i still tell them to direct it to me or my dad or leave it with them? They know I'm the contact for one of the tickets as that was the ticket no. I appealed on their automated system, including details of the two other tickets on there too, buy they only noted one appeal and have said that they don't know what I'm talking about when discussing with Mainstay. Mainstay have been very lax in dealing with this and have been the reason why it's dragged on and also several times told me the wrong info. They told me they were all revoked so I didn't worry and then I later found out tbey were passing the issue round and the girl had given me the wrong info grrrrrr. Now they are just ignoring me. One of their Directors who lives at Magdala Court just got a ticket though and she has told UKPC that they're not there to hassle residents in their own spaces. Surely it's up to them which tickets do and don't stand as corr2ext? Seems they have no power over UKPC??? How do I find wh I is the land owner?

Coupon-mad

I will email DRP just to let them know to address me. Technically I am not the keeper, it's a lease company vehicle that my dad leased and I'm insured as a family member. Is that still ok?

Hang on, so the letters are coming to your Dad, the lessee? I hope so, that's a good thing, keep it all in his name!

Then he must be the person responding, and he can point out that he can't be held liable as hirer/lessee because the parking firm failed to follow para 13 and 14 of Schedule 4 of the POFA. And he was not the driver but that person will not be named, so there is no cause of action against any party and they must cease and desist with this harassment.

Work that into the planned response, including the stuff about the new address and the other robust stuff.

I do hope this is all in the lessee's name, because he's safe from liability and so are you, as long as he does NOT name you.

Blondesuzie

Ok well that's great but think I need to find out what is what because DRP aren't sending them to my dad, they're sending them to Ford Motor Co. who are then forwarding them to my Dad for his attention. And he's panicking. Doesn't look good to the work place he just retired from. So do I write to them (from him) and say he's the leasee just so they leave the company out of the loop?

So that the case for 2 of the tickets that they ig ired my appeals for (joint appeal) but the other one I already appealed and so they are addressing me as they know it's my space and that's how I argued (indeed stupid now but seemed so common sense that they were in the wrong, clearly that makes no odds to these cowboys). So if they know I'm the driver of the one ticket shall I just leave it at that and fight these two different ways? So the other two inwtite to them as my dad and state what you mentioned, effectively telling them to shove off. Or leave it with letters goimg to the company? And then the one that they have my details for I just ignore myself and continue showing Mainstay what they have let us in for and create a case?

Thanks so much guys, you have some serious wisdom and guidance here, I feel I should be paying you!! I've been so frustrated and at least now know I'm not alone and can fight this in an informative way