Work capability assessment, I scored 0 points.

w06

worth keeping an eye on what's available in that line still Penitent, as one of my colleagues regularly reminds me it's an area where what you can do rather than your qualifications shine through. (I work in the field but from an unconventional and somewhat eclectic background having had to change career because of my health)

w06

agreed. I think I'm lucky in that although very far from secure at the moment (hoping that may change sometime soonish) I've found a niche that I can work in largely from my bed. But not everyone can do that.

there is a huge leap from online fora and even intense MMPORG (online games played with other people online) gaming to regular structured work, even if it's from home.

easier said than done at times, especially when the psychological effects of long term ill health come in to play, but important to try to keep in mind what you can do and what might be possible. Even that's a delicate balance though, because what you can do vs what the world will support you in doing creates frustrations

anyhoo, the dog's stolen my coffee so we could be in for a fun morning!

Iwanttobefree

Chickenlips wrote: »

- OP seems to spend more time focusing on complaints and arguments with the benefits office, rather than looking at ways to move forward. Perhaps a job responding to complaint letters/emails for a company might suit them? Provided they don't have to use a phone of course. Or on forums - given that OP doesn't have difficulty communicating via the internet.

Given your current financial situation and the possibility that you will not qualify for the benefits you are hoping to get, now might be the time to consider what you ARE able to do and look at jobs that meet that criteria. You are able to play an online game three days in a row and reply to this forum regularly, so something online and from home may be suitable - even if it's just a couple of hours a day.

I shouldn't have to justify myself, but I'm feeling bored at the moment.

I think your missing some important factors.

This is a benefits help thread and I cant work at the moment whatever you or others think, hence I came here asking for advise while in a severely depressed and not thinking clearly state of mind.

I did not come here asking to be judged by people who have zero clue about my day to day capabilities.

A LOT of this thread was written while I was severely depressed, due to me being dumbfounded by their decision and in a state of panic and despair, hence ranting and ranting and not thinking at all correctly.

My initial reaction was "crap, got to find some sort of work, else we are screwed" and I was already looking at jobs on a regular, and for a while a daily basis, in the hope one would come up that I could do.

The more I looked, the more depressed I got as it became very clear, I couldn't do any of them due to my current state of health.

Meanwhile my close personal friends (all hard workers all their lives) my wife (who works her !!!! off supporting us), my kids (both in full time employment) ALL said to me words to the effect of "you are kidding yourself if you think you are going to be able to work in your current condition"

I saw my GP, she said exactly the same thing and signed me off

But you think otherwise, fair enough, I'm used to this kind of judgement, we're all entitled to our opinions, I'm not at all offended by what you say, I am a little annoyed as you simply have no real idea of my day to day life.


You say I have no problem posting here regularly, but how regularly is it, am I sitting all day on my PC posting here, day after day?

Lets look at my post history and post a few of the times I post too.


10 posts yesterday
3 posts on the 6th (2 around 11am, one around 17:30)
11 posts on the 5th
4 on the 3rd (2 around 14:00, 2 around 19:00)
17 on the 2nd
11 on 31st October
5 days no post
1 post on 26th Nov to update on this thread at around 20:00
10 on 23rd Oct
1 on 22 Oct (around 20:00)
2 on 21st (around 11:30 am)
4 on 19th (2 around 18:30, 2 around 23:00)
3 on 18th (around 19:00)
2 on 16th (around 23:00)
9 on 14th (around 11am)
6 on 13th
5 on 12th
8 on 11th
6 on 10th
2 on 8th
1 on 5th
2 on 3rd
4 on 2nd
2 on 29th Sept
11 days no posts
1 on 18th Sept
12 days no post
1 on 6th Sept
6 on 4th
5 on 3rd
4 on 1st
2 on 30th Aug
2 on 29th Aug
14 days no posts
2 on 15th Aug
6 days no posts
etc etc etc

You will notice that every now and then there is a break where days have past and I haven't posted at all. I'm still at home on all those days, I'm still in my living room on all those days, but those days I simply don't feel well enough to look at, yet alone post on a forum.

Other days I often make a handful of replies, often hours apart.

Some days (often a few days in a row) I feel really great, have a lot more energy etc and feel a lot more focused, these days are usually the ones where I make a lot of posts here.

With regards to me playing games, you are doing what the medical examiner board does, take every single thing literally when I give examples, when I said to the medical examiner about my hands locking up, yet if I played a piano for two hours I had no problems, I didn't mean I play the piano for two hours, I was emphasising that it only happens when my fingers are closed.

Likewise, when I gave my memory example and used a game I enjoy playing, I wasn't meaning to imply I play it every day for hours.

There's also the very regular posts I make to the group of people I play online with, apologising for not being around much, and apologising for not feeling like talking the few times I am around.

Am I not allowed to play a game when I feel able to? Does me being able to play a game, sometimes for an hour or so and sometimes for a few days on a row (but could be at 8am, 2pm, 6pm, 8pm etc I couldn't ever guarantee a time I could play) mean I am fit for work?

Can you show me these jobs where I can turn up when I feel able and work for the odd hour or two please?

Your "providing they don't have to use a phone of course "comment looks like sarcasm to me, apologies if you weren't intending it to be. My posts are long enough, I didn't bother including the entire email from the DWP complaints team, here's another part of it

---

I have noted that you find it difficult to talk to strangers either face to face or by phone, this is why I felt that contacting you via email maybe more beneficial to you. As stated previously, as soon as I have received a response to the questions asked, I will contact you again with a resolution.

If you feel that you wish to contact me, then please feel free to do so. I can be contacted by phone Monday to Friday 8.30am to 4.00pm or alternatively, you can contact me via email on the above address. If email is preferred, then please can you quote the above FBH number in your subject along with my name, that way, your communication will come direct to me.

---

As for your sarcasm about me writing complaint letters for a living, here's how I ended the one I sent to various MPs about this.

---

I started writing this letter in July. It's now 18th October.

I might take weeks or months to finish writing, but I don't give in.

---

Here are the common themes that have come up:
- OP states that they want to work but that there are many health reasons preventing this.

- Posters have asked OP to consider what they CAN do rather than can't... OP has ignored this.

No I haven't, the simple answer at the moment is there isn't something I can do at present, due to my health, it doesn't matter how much I consider what I can do, no such job seems to exist.

I would need a job where I can turn up when I want, sometimes in the morning, sometimes not until 9pm but never knowing the day before. Sit all day (OK plenty of jobs where I can do that) , not deal with customers (or be allowed to be rude to rude customers) , go have an hours sleep as and when I want (I say want, I mean when I'm tired) etc etc etc

If such a job exists, please point me in the right direction

The thing is, I am telling the truth as my health actually is, you will see that as me being negative, what do you want me to do? Lie to you?

- Posters have suggested OP review the points criteria and see how they fit, rather than focus on illnesses. OP doesn't seem to want to
do this (with the exception of one post where they kind of did).

I posted enough drivel when I wasn't thinking straight and went round in circles far too many times as it was. I took on board what they said.

The simple fact is, regardless of whether or not the DWP say I'm fit enough for work, I am not at the present time. How they score their points is irrelevant to whether or not I can work, although of course it's relevant to getting their benefit (hence my letter to various MPs)

My last post was a very positive one, part of my depression (probably a big part) is because of how down I feel about not being able to work at present. I have more info on my health but it's best suited as a reply to one of the CFS related ones in this thread.

I just found an old wageslip from 1999, this was after I had started getting ill and had changed jobs to a less well paid one with less stress. At this job I got paid every 4 weeks. My take home pay (after tax etc) was £1980.04

If I win my appeal, my benefits for the same 4 week time period 18 years later will be £436.

Working just 15 hours at min wage would give me the same as I get on benefits if I win my tribunal.

Working 25 hours (just 5 hrs a day) would give me £750 every 4 weeks rather than the £436 I will get if I win this appeal.

Do you honestly think my wife would carry on working herself to death just trying to cover our bills, telling me that I'm stupid if I try to work at the moment, if she thought there was nothing wrong with me and I was sitting at home playing games all day ?

One other thing, I have an email from my daughter dated 12 Jan 2014 where she sent me a list of all the work from home sites she could find,. We went through the lot and every single one was either a scam, or something beyond my ability (written English not being one of my strong points no matter how coherent some of my posts might look) . My point being, I have not been sitting around twiddling my thumbs, hoping something falls into my lap with zero effort,

KxMx

You'd think in 2017 with all the advances in technology there would be plenty of work from home jobs.

As most posters who have actually seriously looked into this (including myself) found, it is not the case at all.

Iwanttobefree

borkid wrote: »

Sorry penitent my mistake. Hope the OP gets back.

I will try to answer you.

I have a problem with the label Chronic Fatigue for the simple reason I know 3 other people very well who also have it and if you did a survey of our four symptoms, every single one of us is completely different.

One comes up with bruises all down her arms and legs and looks like she's been beaten up.

Another. has so little energy, she literally can no longer walk, even on a good day she has to use a mobility scooter.

Me, I would wake up in the morning, my face all puffed up, eyes bulging, would walk downstairs, sit in the chair and wake up when my wife got home from work , still feeling totally shattered. With me, this lasted months at a time. Usually there was about 2 to 3 weeks in any year where I felt 100% fine, and while we are told to pace ourselves, suddenly finding yourself full of energy and been incapable of doing virtually anything for months, well the temptation is too great.

I would say we ALL have completely different illnesses with exactly the same fatigue as a side effect. Likewise if I google my symptoms, I found literally hundreds of illnesses etc that have the fatigue as a side effect.

I kind of feel they do a few basic tests, and simply lump us all under the CFS/ME umbrella and I am convinced that for many of us, if only the money was available, we would be able to get to the bottom of the route cause.

I have also watched and read of people wit severe fatigue, having operations for various things, one had a gland removed from his neck, totally cured.

My CFS started in the 90s at the same time I was both diagnosed with a bad hiatus hernia and also treated for the stomach bug "helicobacter pylori"

But it wasn't diagnosed until 2000. At first I was simply told I had another virus, I was more and more ratty at work, taking more and more days off sick etc, was going home, falling asleep until bed time.

And it gradually got worse and worse.

Achey joints, fuzzy head, I couldn't read a page of a book and take anything in, I started listening to audio books instead.

My short term memory was so bad that I had to be accompanied to my GP otherwise I would have zero clue what she said.

Friends said they could see me change like someone flicking a switch, I would be chatting to them one minute, and the next my body completely changed and I literally had to sleep.

A few years ago I had an operation for my Hiatus Hernia called a "nissen fundoplication". The second I woke up I felt completely different, a large part was due to the amount of anti nausea drugs they were pumping me full of as I was't allowed to try and vomit for a few moths, and for the fist time in years, I didn't feel at all sick (unlike now where I'm back to feeling sick all the time)

Since that operation I felt on top of the world, I no longer woke up with a puffy face or slept ALL day and I happily told everyone my CFS/ME tiredness had gone.

I put on a positive head, wanted to get back to work, told the CFS department I was cured and they signed me off, told me to rebuild my strength over 6 months to a year and look for a job.

BUT I also had problems with my knees since I was 15 and had numerous operations on both of them, rarely did 3 years go by without an op.

When I had CFS/ME, this was the longest I had been without an op fior the simple reason I was so inactive for so many years (although legs did give way daily etc)

So when I thought I was better and started going out for longer and longer walks, my knees basically disintegrated and when I first saw the surgeon, he said looking at my x-rays, he thought they had my age wrong as I have the knees of an 80 year old.

And I had to wait for two replacements which took a huge battle to actually get. I finally had them both done last year and again I thought, "yipee, as son as I'm fit, back to work I go"

And then my back started.

However, my GP disagrees with me as does my family , and as do my close friends.

My GP says I do still have CFS/ME, it's just not as bad as it was and some of the symptoms have changed. I am being told I am making the mistake of thinking I an well, because I am better than I used to be/

Or to put it another way, if a normal person scores 100, when I was at my worst, I scored 10. Since the operation I score 50, to me the difference between 10 and 50 makes me think I was cured, when the reality is, 50 is a long way from 100.

CFS/ME is why I still have short term memory problems, CFS/ME is a big contributing factor to my pain, CFS/ME has a lot to do with my depression (not my words, my GP etc)

I made the mistake of being too optimistic about my health (regardless of what some posters think), thinking I was far fitter than I actually am.

And it's only since the DWP problems that I've had to face up to how bad my health still is.

Even in my post yesterday I was being 100% positive, thinking in about a year I will be able to get a job, but of course that isn't taking into account my CFS/ME, depression etc but I am hoping that as my CFS is nowhere near as bad as it was, when my mobility improves so does everything else.

On a good day I think "what the hell am I doing sitting here I could be out working", on a bad day I cant even use the PC.

However the really really bad days I'm getting at the moment have only started happening, since the DWP stopped my money and I suspect a lot of that is stressed related which will hopefully improve if I win my appeal.

borkid

Thanks Iwantbefree I understand now it was an op for another health problem which you had and that had the knock on effect of reducing your ME/CFS symptoms. Quite understandable as you body has less to cope with.

I really do understand how differently ME affects different people I've seen it with my daughter and a daughter of a friend who also suffers. Also the quick change in how you feel is common with my daughter, I can now see the signs just by looking at her body and skin colour, muscle tone goes and skin goes white/ grey.

Just hope they put more money into research and find a cure or at least some way to manage this debilitating neurological disease.

Iwanttobefree

I finally got my date for my Tribunal, 9th Feb.

Been ask to bring along my copy of the tribunal paperwork, just went through it, 175 pages.

Alice_Holt

Have you prepared your submission explaining the grounds on which you should have been awarded ESA?

(See post 6)

burnsguitarman

Maybe if you focused on what you can do, and be more positive you would feel better.
I haven't read all your posts, but you sound very negative. Every symptom you have sounds to be totally debilitating , when in reality, many people cope with these, and work to support themselves.
I am not saying you don't have genuine illnesses, but are they really so bad?

Iwanttobefree

burnsguitarman wrote: »

Maybe if you focused on what you can do, and be more positive you would feel better.
I haven't read all your posts, but you sound very negative. Every symptom you have sounds to be totally debilitating , when in reality, many people cope with these, and work to support themselves.
I am not saying you don't have genuine illnesses, but are they really so bad?

Time and time again I have been told that the main reason I failed my medical assessment was because I was too positive about what I could do. And rather than concentrate on what I could do, I should have concentrated on what I couldn't do.

This has been advice from the likes of the CAB and other charities helping people fill out benefit claims.

I agree with you, I should be able to go there tell the truth and explain what I can and cant do, but sadly it doesn't work like that.

I was advised by someone last week who fills in benefit forms on behalf of others on a weekly basis that I shouldn't even smile or look in any way happy else it will go against me.

Regarding my negativity, if you knew what I had been thorough, the stress, the hitting a brick wall when trying to talk to the DWP, you would understand my frustration.

My GP is signing me off every month and says there's simply no way I can consider working at the moment.

My physio has said it will be at least 12 months before my body is in a state where I could even consider part time work due to what it's been through.


It kind of gets annoying (although I know people are only trying to help) when there's nothing I would like more than to work, but simply cannot, and they say things like I should concentrate on what I can do.

My wife is working herself to an early grave and I worry about her, the hours she works etc, and only yesterday we were talking about what we would do if I did loose the appeal. She said she would get another job on her one day off, I said that she couldn't as she's already over worked and over tired. I said if it came to it, I would have to get a part time job, regardless of my health.

Her response (someone who knows me inside out, been together for the last 30 years) "Don't be stupid, there's no way you can work at the moment"

Yet people on here (you are not the first) tell me I need to concentrate on what I can do, as though if I do that, I am magically able to go to work.

I suffer from severe depression and other mental health issues that I'm not comfortable talking about, it's those that are stopping me getting a job, everything else, while preventing me doing certain jobs, would not stop me doing everything.

You only have to read my circular rants at the beginning of this thread to see how I wasn't with it at all when I did so.

While it may seem negative, the medical assessor made some assumptions that were untrue and some statements that were simply wrong (and I have produced medical evidence to show that). My negativity as you call it is me responding to the points the DWP originally responded to, pointing out to them how wrong their assessor was.

Most of those things they were wrong about would not prevent me from working. However it was important to show how wrong the medical assessment actually was, and there's no other way than to tell the truth (again based on advice, I should only point out the negatives as any positive goes against me)

The bottom line is, there's three main reasons why I cant work at the moment regardless of the DWP criteria.

1) the state of my physical body, due to the years I was literally immobile with chronic fatigue etc, which my physio says will take about a year to get to a point where I could consider working part time.

2) The constant pain I'm in, while this could be managed with tablets, so far any I've tried have made me feel out of my face (and I've tried loads).

The serious side of my pain is that at night I'm not sleeping for more than about an hour before pain causes me to wake up. This means that when I get up, I have had a very very disturbed sleep, hence I come down stairs totally exhausted, and am too tired to concentrate on anything (and usually fall asleep in the armchair on and off for hours)

3) My main concern is my mental health. My ability to handle stress, my ability to remain calm etc. This is the one I believe I should score enough on it's own without considering anything else.

It's something I've been reluctant to admit to as to how bad I am, there's a real stigma attached with this. My GP has tried to get me to contact a local Well being/depression help line for months but I've never had the courage to do so.

For the first time ever, I recently created a fake gmail account and posted under a fake name on a depression forum exactly how my depression affects me. It doesn't make nice reading and when I read it back, I feel I'm reading about some psycho nutter with anger issues that should be locked up.

Not linking the post, but here are some of the replies.

It does sound like a lot of the first symptoms you mention fit into the "classic depression" box, the anger and outbursts not so much so

---

From what you’ve said, I take it your doctor doesn’t know all this? You really need to talk to them, give them all the information (perhaps print out your posts here and show them to your GP?), and take things from there. Have you had CBT? That may be something your doctor might want to refer you for?

---

I have had a lot of intrusive thoughts just like that before, I haven't acted on them but I'm really quiet, anger issues maybe? Like pent up anger from a source, maybe money as it gets you down and is put of your control and it builds up so it's kind of like a psychosis.. I guess tell your doctor, I never did because I didn't want to tell people in case it was like schizophrenia or something but I think it's better to know so that it can be helped I guess

----

sound alot like what my mind is alike . Have you heard of BPD ? Early stage tho as in when I first had it diagnosed , well it took them for awhile coz I would be very strict and OCD and I had full time office job that point. It got later diagnosed as EUBPD , due that element that normally people with BPD cant keep a job , put iv worked years within same company etc

And those responses tell you far more than I'm really happy telling you.

It embarrasses me to discuss or admit what my thoughts are like, it took weeks of trying before I had confidence to post it on that forum, since I've done so, I'm finding it slightly easier to talk about it (i would never have hinted what my minds like on here a few weeks ago).

And even more so I would never ever ever contemplate writing it down om my ESA medical questionnaire.

I tried to explain parts of it to my medical assessor but she misunderstood a comment I stupidly made, and after that comment, she simply wasn't interested in discussing my depression anymore.

I tried to rectify this in my mandatory appeal, I still didn't go into details about how bad my mental state is, I just gave a few examples of how my depression affects me on a daily basis (such as avoiding talking to strangers etc)

Typing this post has been very very very hard for me to do, sitting in front of a random medical assessor employed by the likes of Capita, they have zero chance of getting the full picture.

Some who don't suffer from what I suffer from will say it's my own stupid fault, but anyone who has suffered from similar things, will know how hard it is to talk about it.

I know people don't mean it like that, but sometimes I wish I didn't post this on here as to me, I find some of the responses sort of having a go at me, telling me to pull myself together, get out there and find something. If only reality was that easy.

I cant remember if I mentioned this in the above posts, I have in front of me a wage slip from when I worked dated 23/04/1999, I got paid every four weeks, 13 times a year.

My take home pay was £1980.04 which meant I was taking home £25740.52 a year

That was 19 years ago.

Last year I got a total of £5616 in benefits (or £468 a month) and is what I'm going to the tribunal to hopefully keep receiving.

If I worked just 25 hrs a week at min wage, I would take home £9750 (minus NI contributions) or £812.50 (minus NI contributions) a month

What do you think I would rather, face the stress of a tribunal etc for £468 a month or work part time for £812.

If there's any way I could, then I would.