Urgent advice kindly requested - County Claim (Gladstone Solicitors)

Kamran

abeltasman wrote: »

That's great news, well done!

Did the judge say much about it being a forbidding contract / there being no offer of contract in terms of the wording on the sign?

No because the sign small print is relatively clear in that in states that you can either park there with a permit (within the correct bays), otherwise you agree to pay £100 as a parking charge. The judge (eventually) deemed this as the basis of contract. Whilst their lawyer was initially encompassing all scenarios, everyone settled eventually on it being a parking charge and not a penalty/trespass.

abeltasman

OK many thanks for letting me know. I think muleskinner is going to court soon in a similar situation so I'm interested to see how that works out.

Well done again Kamran!

System

Did the judge say much about it being a forbidding contract

Wouldn't be relevant if there was no contract on view - if you can't see it, you can't agree it.

If you can't see it, you can ticket like mad - Copyright PPM

muleskinner

Excellent news - well done! Hopefully I can also stick it to PPM next Monday.

I have never done it at County Court but I once had a hearing before a tribunal which I won and was so panicked/nervous on the day I forgot to ask for my costs. I sent a letter a few days after and the costs were awarded in my favour.

Maybe the judge was already familiar with Vine which is why so much onus was put on the signage?

I really don't understand the judge's take on the VCS/HMRC point. I though the point of that case was that the PPC didn't have to own the land, not that the terms under which they operated there were irrelevant. To say 'If you have some kind of contract with the landowner then you can do whatever the hell you want' seems a pretty onerous interpretation of that case law.

Kamran

muleskinner wrote: »

Excellent news - well done! Hopefully I can also stick it to PPM next Monday.

I have never done it at County Court but I once had a hearing before a tribunal which I won and was so panicked/nervous on the day I forgot to ask for my costs. I sent a letter a few days after and the costs were awarded in my favour.

Maybe the judge was already familiar with Vine which is why so much onus was put on the signage?

I really don't understand the judge's take on the VCS/HMRC point. I though the point of that case was that the PPC didn't have to own the land, not that the terms under which they operated there were irrelevant. To say 'If you have some kind of contract with the landowner then you can do whatever the hell you want' seems a pretty onerous interpretation of that case law.

If you scroll down and see their Witness Statement, have a look at points 16 and 17 - the section on "No Authority to Enforce Charges" - she recited both points off verbatim and agreed with it.

beamerguy

Well done Kamran .... it's a win :beer:

Another load of Gladstones rubbish zapped in court

muleskinner

Kamran wrote: »

If you scroll down and see their Witness Statement, have a look at points 16 and 17 - the section on "No Authority to Enforce Charges" - she recited both points off verbatim and agreed with it.

Yeah, I'm not sure how hard I should argue that point in my case. Personally I think it's a misinterpretation and taken out of context, that case wasn't about whether parking charges should be paid - it was about paying VAT on parking charges already paid.

To follow through the Judge's argument in that quote - yes, there's nothing to stop someone entering into a contract with me to sell me Buckingham Palace if they don't own it. However, if I didn't pay up right away because I found out the vendor had no rights to sell me Buckingham Palace, and the vendor then took me to court to pay, no court in the land would force me to pay up if there was no evidence the vendor had any rights to sell it to me (or had any possibility of attaining those rights).

In my case they don't appear to have authority to act on the land at all, it's outside the area specified in their contracts. Plus the 'parking services' the driver was charged for were never received as she was told by the 'warden' she wasn't allowed to park there and had to move the vehicle!

bargepole

Kamran wrote: »

Immediate Questions

1. Their lawyer made reference to making an appeal, which was immediate rejected by the judge. She then offered that it could go to some sort of higher court - is this something that's common, or just talk? Can I (in all probability) consider the matter settled?
2. In the judge's rush to get us out after she made her decision, I totally forgot to bring up my costs schedule (exhaustion / euphoria), which both the court and the claimant had been served the night before. Presumably I can apply for this retrospectively, but what's the process from here?

Q1 - the Claimant can apply direct to the Circuit Judge for permission to appeal, within 21 days. They can't appeal just because they don't like the decision, they have to be able to point to some finding of fact, or point of law, that they think the original Judge got wrong. The Circuit Judge will only grant leave to appeal if he believes their grounds of appeal have merit, and are at least arguable.

Q2 - You get one shot at costs - as soon as Judgment has been given. That ship has sailed, I'm afraid.

The_Deep

Gladstones may be toast shortly, at least one MP has referred them to the SRA. Eyebrows have also been raised about their connection with the IPC, the IAS, and their frequent name changing.

If this gets to court it may be worth mentioning to the judge.

Lamilad

Well done, and thanks for the useful and informative report.