Labour U-Turn on the single market

adindas

steampowered wrote: »

Possibly quite expensive. You'd need new IT systems, and new ticket gates at stations to distinguish between TfL parts and private train parts. You'd also have the complexity of introducing yet another tier of ticketing to London transport. I also do not know whether this would even be lawful given that travelcards are regulated.

He does not even need changing IT apart from announcement implying that annual travel card to be used for TFL control public transport such as tube, buses, Overground, TFL train, DLR. If you are living in zone 1, 2 (say) do you ever need Dft controlled transport, National Rail for commuting ?? Is it not the way to some degrees the National rail are currently working anyway, you board the train without a valid ticket you get caught you pay penalty.

Even if needs t modifying contactless technology but keep in mind contactless technology is already being used by TFL.

Many of those who need National rail are not even living in London, so they are not even Londoner.

He definitely does not implement that knowing how much it is going to cost them based on the link below and find the way to get away to look good for people who do not know well or do not have impact on them. But he does know that freezing London public transport will attract a lot of voters. And he succeed ...

http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Rail-News/khan-accused-of-lying-over-failure-to-extend-tfl-fares-freeze-to-travelcards

A leaked document acquired by the MayorWatch blog via a FoI request showed that TfL provided costings for freezing all of its fares, only a few days after Khan was elected to City Hall.

This is what he said in his manifesto and he succeed to lure voters, once elected try to wind it up even with shameless way. Keep in mind there are a lot of people who knows TFl and London transport well are using this strong words.

“Sadiq Khan’s manifesto specifically said that Londoners won’t pay a penny more for their travel in 2020 than they do today. No ifs no buts"

I am a Londoner and pay my council tax in London. Like many other Londoners; since his manifesto, we have seen our annual travel card (saved in Oystercard) increased last year and will keep increasing this year and many years to come !!!!!!!!!!!!!! .

steampowered

adindas wrote: »

He does not even need changing IT apart from announcement implying that annual travel card to be used for TFL control public transport such as tube, buses, Overground, TFL train, DLR. If you are living in zone 1, 2 (say) do you ever need Dft controlled transport, National Rail for commuting ?? Is it not the way to some degrees the National rail are currently working anyway, you board the train without a valid ticket you get caught you pay penalty.

The technology would need to be able to distinguish between someone entering a station to use a TfL service, and someone entering a station to use a non-TfL service. Otherwise you'd have a situation where someone loads a "TfL-only travelcard" onto their oyster but is still able to get through the ticket gates onto a non-TfL service. I don't know if the technology can do that the moment. Maybe it can, I just don't know.

The stations also aren't set-up like that. At most stations you just tap in once at the ticket gate and go to your platform. A station like Farringdon where you have Underground services and Thameslink services on the same concourse would need new ticket gates.

Many of those who need National rail are not even living in London, so they are not even Londoner.

There are plenty of places in London which are only served by private rail services not operated by TfL. Mill Hill, Eltham and Bromley come to mind.

This is what he said in his manifesto and he succeed to lure voters, once elected try to wind it up even with shameless way. Keep in mind there are a lot of people who knows TFl and London transport well are using this strong words

No, the way I read it the manifesto commitment was to freeze TfL fares. This was also made very clear by coverage in places like the Evening Standard at the time. I certainly didn't go into that election thinking that travelcards would be frozen. I suppose we may have to agree to disagree on this.

adindas

steampowered wrote: »

The technology would need to be able to distinguish between someone entering a station to use a TfL service, and someone entering a station to use a non-TfL service. Otherwise you'd have a situation where someone loads a "TfL-only travelcard" onto their oyster but is still able to get through the ticket gates onto a non-TfL service. I don't know if the technology can do that the moment. Maybe it can, I just don't know.

The stations also aren't set-up like that. At most stations you just tap in once at the ticket gate and go to your platform. A station like Farringdon where you have Underground services and Thameslink services on the same concourse would need new ticket gates.


There are plenty of places in London which are only served by private rail services not operated by TfL. Mill Hill, Eltham and Bromley come to mind.


No, the way I read it the manifesto commitment was to freeze TfL fares. This was also made very clear by coverage in places like the Evening Standard at the time. I certainly didn't go into that election thinking that travelcards would be frozen. I suppose we may have to agree to disagree on this.

I never say the technology does not need to be able to distinguish between someone entering a station to use a TfL service. How many people get caught try cheating on this way ???

Adding ticket barrier, changing lift, escalator, etc rejuvenation of the station is already part of the TFl routine is it not it ??

Also similarly there are many more people living in London do not need access to National rail. Moreover, if you are in London you could always find away to travel without the need to get access to national rail, if you mean it.

“Sadiq Khan’s manifesto specifically said that Londoners won’t pay a penny more for their travel in 2020 than they do today. No ifs no buts"

I am a Londoner and pay my council tax in London. Like many other Londoners; since his manifesto, we have seen our annual travel card (saved in Oystercard) increased last year and will keep increasing this year and many years to come !!!!!!!!!!!!!! .

He definitely does not implement that knowing how much it is going to cost them based on the link below and find the way to get away to look good for people who do not know well or do not have impact on them. But he does know that freezing London public transport will attract a lot of voters. And he succeed ...

http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Rail-News/khan-accused-of-lying-over-failure-to-extend-tfl-fares-freeze-to-travelcards

A leaked document acquired by the MayorWatch blog via a FoI request showed that TfL provided costings for freezing all of its fares, only a few days after Khan was elected to City Hall.

He succeed to lure voters, once elected try to wind it up even with shameless way. Keep in mind there are a lot of people who knows TFL and London transport like GLA are using this strong words "shameless liar".

justme111

Can someone ( may be you , steampowered) explain how charging VAT on private school fees would yield 1.6 bn if overall private pupil's quantity is about 650 000? If for ease of calculation they pay 20 k annually each (likely less) the total fees are about 13 mln on which VAT would be about 1 mln. :huh::huh:

steampowered

justme111 wrote: »

Can someone ( may be you , steampowered) explain how charging VAT on private school fees would yield 1.6 bn if overall private pupil's quantity is about 650 000? If for ease of calculation they pay 20 k annually each (likely less) the total fees are about 13 mln on which VAT would be about 1 mln. :huh::huh:

I didn't know the answer to this off the top of my head, but did a quick google search.

An article by the independent last month suggests the average private school fee is £15,675 a year.

The wikipedia entry on private schools suggests there are 615,000 private school pupils in the UK.

If you charged VAT at 20% on 615,000 pupils paying on average £15,675 a year, the tax receipt would be £1.928 billion.

This is actually £328 million more than Labour say they would raise in the Labour manifesto. Of course the actual tax receipt would be slightly lower, as you would have to adjust the figure to take account of some people removing their children from private school or private schools reducing their fees.

steampowered

He definitely does not implement that knowing how much it is going to cost them based on the link below and find the way to get away to look good for people who do not know well or do not have impact on them. But he does know that freezing London public transport will attract a lot of voters. And he succeed ...

To my mind:

1) Freezing TfL fares, and
2) Paying part of the passenger fares charged by private train companies from the TfL budget, so that private train fares do not increase,

Are two quite different propositions. Option 2 is not a fare freeze but rather an additional subsidy for private train companies paid for by taxpayers. It would be understandable if the Mayor got costings for option 2 but decided not to proceed.

He succeed to lure voters, once elected try to wind it up even with shameless way. Keep in mind there are a lot of people who knows TFL and London transport like GLA are using this strong words "shameless liar".

I think we have to take these statements with a pinch of salt. These people are political opponents looking to make a name for themselves. They would have all known at the time that the pledge only covered TfL fares.

adindas

steampowered wrote: »

To my mind:

1) Freezing TfL fares, and
2) Paying part of the passenger fares charged by private train companies from the TfL budget, so that private train fares do not increase,

Are two quite different propositions. Option 2 is not a fare freeze but rather an additional subsidy for private train companies paid for by taxpayers. It would be understandable if the Mayor got costings for option 2 but decided not to proceed.


I think we have to take these statements with a pinch of salt. These people are political opponents looking to make a name for themselves. They would have all known at the time that the pledge only covered TfL fares.

http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Rail-News/khan-accused-of-lying-over-failure-to-extend-tfl-fares-freeze-to-travelcards

A leaked document acquired by the MayorWatch blog via a FoI request showed that TfL provided costings for freezing all of its fares, only a few days after Khan was elected to City Hall

How could you make a manifesto without even have knowledge how is it going to cost whether you could implement it ???

GLA who spelled a strong wording "shameless liar" is not a political party. GLA has a very good knowledge of London transport system and TFL.

Many Londoners traveling with annual travel card like me hoping Sadiq Khan will honour his manifesto are not politicians. Like many people we even pay politicians to do their job through taxation.

“Sadiq Khan’s manifesto specifically said that Londoners won’t pay a penny more for their travel in 2020 than they do today. No ifs no buts"

I am a Londoner and pay my council tax in London. Like many other Londoners; since his manifesto, we have seen our annual travel card (saved in Oystercard) increased last year and will keep increasing this year and many years to come !!!!!!!!!!!!!! .

steampowered

adindas wrote: »

How could you make a manifesto without even have knowledge how is it going to cost whether you could implement it ???

The manifesto commitment was to freeze TfL fares, and that is what Sadiq has done.

Admittedly it may not help people like you who rely on an annual travel card. But perhaps a freeze on travel cards is something to raise with your MP rather than a complaint about the Mayor of London.

GLA who spelled a strong wording "shameless liar" is not a political party. GLA has a very good knowledge of London transport system and TFL.

From a quick google search the quote came from a gentleman called Keith Prince, who appears to be a senior Conservative politician in Havering & Redbridge. We do have to take things said by party politicians (of any party) in a party political context with a bit of salt. He would have well known that the pledge did not cover travel cards as the private train fare component is is not in the Mayor's control.

adindas

steampowered wrote: »

The manifesto commitment was to freeze TfL fares, and that is what Sadiq has done.

Admittedly it may not help people like you who rely on an annual travel card. But perhaps a freeze on travel cards is something to raise with your MP rather than a complaint about the Mayor of London.

From a quick google search the quote came from a gentleman called Keith Prince, who appears to be a senior Conservative politician in Havering & Redbridge. We do have to take things said by party politicians (of any party) in a party political context with a bit of salt. He would have well known that the pledge did not cover travel cards as the private train fare component is is not in the Mayor's control.

“Sadiq Khan’s manifesto specifically said that Londoners won’t pay a penny more for their travel in 2020 than they do today. No ifs no buts"

I am a Londoner and pay my council tax in London. Like many other Londoners; since his manifesto, we have seen our annual travel card (saved in Oystercard) increased last year and will keep increasing this year and many years to come !!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

As I have mentioned he has the power to issue a London Travel card just to be used for TFL control public transport but he did not after knowing that including these groups will not be viable due to huge loss of revenue of £660m over five years", or equivalent to £132m per year.

Issuing a London travelcard is very simple as contactless technology already used by tfl.

GLA is Greater London Authority is not representing any political party.

Many Londoders share the same opinion with GLA,
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/tube-fares-row-sadiq-khan-blasted-by-commuters-over-broken-promises-a3267136.html

You could find tons of articles similar to this.

Furious commuters today accused Sadiq Khan of breaking a key election pledge after it emerged hundreds of thousands of Londoners would miss out on frozen travel fares.

Please do not argue that these people are idiots, naives have wrongly misinterpreted what is mentioned on manifesto and you are more intelligent to comprehend !!

Josette Decker, 23, an administrative assistant in the financial sector,
“From what he promised I would have expected no to pay any more its disingenuous .”

Ed Torres, 37, a Mayfair-based trader, from Beckenham, said: “Personally I won’t be affected but I know so many people who will and it still is really disappointing because we have all basically been lied to in a broken election promise.”

Hannah Kidd, 29, a dancer, from Crystal Palace, said: “I didn’t really believe it when I heard it, you just know fares are going to go up, but we were all misled.

Ian Burgess, 35, a risk manager, from Battersea added: “Politicians often go back on what they say and this is no different. It just proves again you can’t trust what they say.

Catriona Shannon, 38, an investment banker, from St John’s Wood, said: “It’s disappointing, but I think Londoners know by now the only thing that basically isn’t going to go up in price is a McDonalds. It was clearly an election pledge to attract voters so not to deliver on it is a shame.”“

http://www.cityam.com/257450/freezing-londoners-travelcards-would-have-cost-city-hall

People are not surprised if the strong words "shameless liar" is used

Most people know how to call people who are trying to defend something indefensible.

Masomnia

It's not just travelcards of course it's daily capping too.

Here's a snippet from the BBC:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nATirv1vQc

There are no caveats there, no TfL this or that. 'Londoners who will not pay a penny more in 2020.' Actually a lot will.