Employer says I owe hours

newish2this

Hi,
I am asking for a friend. Basically, she is employed on 37.5 HRs a week and due to the way her shifts worked, she hasn't worked enough hours. Her manager is saying that she owes the company 70ish hours for under working over the last 3 years. My friend agrees that this is probably correct but (1) is there a time limit that the company have to claim that she works these hours back and (2) how soon can they reasonably make her work these hours back.... over weeks or can she spread it over a few months?

Many thanks in advance

sangie595

There's no law on this. If it were to be considered a ""debt" (which is the closest comparison I can think of since she has been overpaid if she owes hours) then the answer would be six years that they can claim back the debt. The rest is up to negotiation. If she is in a union, she needs to speak to them about help.

Geoff1963

The EU Working Time Directive says something about 48 hours / week, and mandatory breaks, so they couldn't demand it all be done over a long weekend. Anyone who tried to do that, would surely fall ill.
Many industries have even shorter maximum working weeks e.g. HGV driving.

I'd get her to ask the Manager what the company's intention is ; if things are reasonably amicable, they won't even ask for anything ridiculous, and there's no serious conflict.

Savvy_Sue

Geoff1963 wrote: »

I'd get her to ask the Manager what the company's intention is ; if things are reasonably amicable, they won't even ask for anything ridiculous, and there's no serious conflict.

It would also be worth asking how this problem is going to be solved in future, ie who will ensure she works the right number of shifts, and what should she do if it appears she is not? Seems to be both sides need to be proactive in this!

getmore4less

^^^^^^^^^
they need to fix the problem then come to some arrangement to make up.

I would make sure they got the calculation right first this could be easy to get wrong.

we could work on that if it would help if we have the shift patterns

Starting with a couple of assumptions.

There has been NO unpaid overtime that has been used to reduce the hours owed(either extra hours or working unpaid breaks)
Statutory holidays 5.6 weeks

That leaves 46.4 weeks worth of worked hours if it is 70 hours over 3 years we are looking at around 1/2 hour per week to make up.

A reasonable compromise is to make it up over the same period that means an extra 1hr a week for 3 years(1/2 to bring up to 37.5hr and 1/2 to pay back the 70hrs)

As for time limits the courts have ruled on other over/under payments so there may be some employment case law out there that can be used.
The obvious recent rulings relate to holiday pay for overtime where the courts have ruled, the employer only has to go back 2 years and if there is ANY break of 3 months where there was no underpayment the employees claim can only go back that far.

henry24

Geoff1963 wrote: »

The EU Working Time Directive says something about 48 hours / week, and mandatory breaks, so they couldn't demand it all be done over a long weekend. Anyone who tried to do that, would surely fall ill.
Many industries have even shorter maximum working weeks e.g. HGV driving.

I'd get her to ask the Manager what the company's intention is ; if things are reasonably amicable, they won't even ask for anything ridiculous, and there's no serious conflict.

You maybe a little out with your HGV driving, yes they can only average 45 hours behind the wheel but with loading, unloading and how the tacho is set they can legally work 82 hours every week.

tacpot12

There is an established principle that an employer does not have to provide you with work (except in certain situations) so they employer can contract you to work 37.5 hours but if they only give you 36 hrs of work that is their problem. I would advise your friend to put this to her employer.

Unless her contract of employment explicitly states that she is responsible for making sure she works the hours she is contracted to work, it is her employer's responsibility to do so.

TELLIT01

There is clearly something seriously wrong with the way the company logs working hours if this hasn't been picked up for 3 years. 70 hours over 3 years equates to 1/2 an hour per week, so if I was the company I would have been inclined to tell the employee that it had happened but to write it off, and ensure correct processes were in place going forward.
In the employees position, I would start from a point of it being built up over 3 years so I'll repay it over 3 years. That done either by being paid for 37 hours per week, or working 1/2 extra each week.
If there had been gross overpayment it's not unreasonable for the employer to suggest that the employee should have realised, but with such a small amount I suspect many people wouldn't have realised.

newish2this

Thank you for all the replies. All are very helpful.
It's taken 3 years to realise because my friend has worked on various wards with different managers on each. She has definitely under worked and they can't just draw a line under it as there are quite a few people this has happened too. It occurred within the NHS so a compromise has to be met to keep all parties happy.

Thanks again ❤️��

breakinthesun

tacpot12 wrote: »

There is an established principle that an employer does not have to provide you with work (except in certain situations) so they employer can contract you to work 37.5 hours but if they only give you 36 hrs of work that is their problem. I would advise your friend to put this to her employer.

Unless her contract of employment explicitly states that she is responsible for making sure she works the hours she is contracted to work, it is her employer's responsibility to do so.

This is the correct answer.

unforeseen

In which case if she has been paid for those missing 70 hours then the employer can claim the overpayment back.