neighbour taking over land I have looked after for 30 years

EachPenny

ViolaLass wrote: »

Contact your local councillor, not MP. I found mine useful when I had a similar-ish problem.

If you live in London as the OP's name suggests then each ward generally has three councillors. You only need to contact one of them, but it is worth doing some reseach on which one is best to contact.

If they represent different parties (a split ward) then if you want something positive doing like buying land, then go for one who is a member of the ruling party. If you are complaining about things like maintenace of the shared ways then one from the opposition party will usually be more helpful.

But also look at their experience and how active they are on the council - some councillors, especially the younger ones, are doing it as a stepping stone to greater things. Active young councillors can be very effective at getting problems solved, less active ones are likely to be too busy with their day job to help you very much. Older councillors who have been on the council a long time will know the problems and know who to talk to, they usually would be the best people to deal with in this kind of situation.

It shouldn't really make a difference which councillor you speak to.... but it does

AdrianC

EachPenny wrote: »

If you live in London as the OP's name suggests then each ward generally has three councillors. You only need to contact one of them, but it is worth doing some reseach on which one is best to contact.

If they represent different parties (a split ward) then if you want something positive doing like buying land, then go for one who is a member of the ruling party. If you are complaining about things like maintenace of the shared ways then one from the opposition party will usually be more helpful.

But also look at their experience and how active they are on the council - some councillors, especially the younger ones, are doing it as a stepping stone to greater things. Active young councillors can be very effective at getting problems solved, less active ones are likely to be too busy with their day job to help you very much. Older councillors who have been on the council a long time will know the problems and know who to talk to, they usually would be the best people to deal with in this kind of situation.

It shouldn't really make a difference which councillor you speak to.... but it does

Sage advice - but, equally, having the MP leaning on the council can get things moving...

(As and when you have an MP again, of course...)

qwert_yuiop

Put a fence round it and just wait and see what happens. The worst is that someone pulls it up again. If they don't, you're nearly there.

davidmcn

I don't see this as something worth troubling councillors for unless you reach some sort of impasse with the council officers. The council say they don't own the land, you can (to some extent) check for yourself whether that's true or not - if you find evidence that they do own it you can go back to their estate department and discuss it. The council don't have any duty to help you identify the owner - and even if they do own the land, they don't have to sell it to you.

And in adverse possession cases, it's often safest not to contact potential owners, as that precludes you getting title indemnity insurance.

bertiewhite

Jimmy_Neutron wrote: »

Put a skip on the land and see what the neighbour says. If she says she owns to land tell her to prove it.

qwert_yuiop wrote: »

Put a fence round it and just wait and see what happens. The worst is that someone pulls it up again. If they don't, you're nearly there.

I was going to suggest something similar - if your neighbour wants to claim it, let them foot the legal bill.

ViolaLass

EachPenny wrote: »

It shouldn't really make a difference which councillor you speak to.... but it does

In my case, I contacted all of them and saw who replied. She'll get my vote next time.

EachPenny

The discussions about putting fences up and adverse posession all seems a bit premature. It appears the land is owned by the council and the only problem is the OP has spoken to people at the council who say the land is not council owned.

As soon as the right person at the council is aware that there is a potential dispute over the ownership of the land then the council will very rapidly be exerting their ownership if so. Money spent on fences etc will be wasted.

Something for the property lawyers to ponder though - if the OP was sucessful in an adverse possession claim would that override the rights of the council (and presumably other owners/tennants) outlined in the OP's deeds-

The right in common with the council adjoining occupiers and all other persons entitled thereto to pass and repass with or without vehicles over the access way. or over such other substituted route leading to the premises as the council may from time to time determine and notify in writing to the transferee or his successors the transferee paying a proper proportion of the cost of maintaining and repairing the same.

Also, doesn't the last bit mean the OP has a maintenance obligation for the access way?

Davesnave

qwert_yuiop wrote: »

Put a fence round it and just wait and see what happens. The worst is that someone pulls it up again. If they don't, you're nearly there.

Yes, after the passage of many years and no challenge from anyone else.

But others appear to have a right of way too, whether they use it or not, and rights of way cannot be extinguished without the consent of all parties involved.

Land_Registry

A few things to throw into the mix here which may or may not prove helpful

By implication the land appears to be owned by the council simply because when the properties were sold they granted rights of way/access over some of the land - odds are the land/garage is unregistered as others state but the council should still know and be able to confirm/prove if they own it

The estates department tend to be the ones to approach at the LA but some have different names for it. Might be worth including a copy of the legal deed inc the right of access/way and referencing the council as the seller to help.

The garage and the land around it are quite separate in terms of the right of access/way presumably

You can search online for registered details by using the Map enquiry option. Centre the map using your postal address and then zoom in on the land/garage.
Once you have zoomed in far enough it will activate the 'Find properties' radio button and provide search results relevant to the area being searched. It will only do so if the land is registered.

If it is too tricky to identify online ro the results are unclear then a postal search of the index map (SIM) is the best option rather than buying details that may not be relevant. If the land is unregistered then the SIM is the only way of confirming that with us.

In order to claim title to land/property it is not essential that it is fenced. Our Practice Guides 4 and 5 explain the essentials in more detail and I imagine PG 5 would be relevant here
Where the land was previously open ground, fencing is strong evidence of factual possession, but it is neither indispensable nor conclusive.

Claiming title to the land/garage would not preclude others from retaining their right of access/way over it

And such rights can be lost without the benefiting parties' consents although very unlikely to be relevant here. For example a right of way/access can be extinguished if the benefiting landowner stops using it and make it clear that they have abandoned the right e.g. right of access through a gate but they bricked up the access point themselves

So the ball is in your court with regards either convincing the council that they own it, getting them to sell it to you and then protecting your ownership.
Or applying to register your own claim, bearing in mind that you would also need to meet the legal threshold and the registration requirements - you may find that neither of you have achieved that so best to get legal advice on that point to be sure

teddysmum

davidmcn wrote: »

I don't see this as something worth troubling councillors for unless you reach some sort of impasse with the council officers.

Why not, as they are 'well paid' ,some for doing very little, as expenses paid are more than the cost.


eg We had husband and wife as councillors and our councillors are given the full cost of their phone bill, regardless of how much is spent on council business. In this case the household phone bill was paid twice (I know because they were acquaintances of my mother-in-law and they bragged about the 'little earner')