working time regs & learning (training) in my own time with work relevant stuff

PossiblyOverworked

nicechap wrote: »

What's your union said?

I'm not in a union.

PossiblyOverworked

getmore4less wrote: »

You should also raise the "on call" situation,

If they want to strictly follow the rules on rest periods.

You should not have to come into work for 11hrs after a call where you needed to work.

To comply with the weekly rest periods they need to limit the call on consecutive weekends.

How are they on the 20 min daily breaks for over 6 hrs.

"On call" isn't an official arrangement (as in contractual) but there is an "on call" list which has been circulated with senior management, with a list of "type of issue" and "the person to call" (and their backup) about that particular issue. I am the "backup" on call person but do semi-frequently get calls as the primary person isn't available or doesn't know how to deal with that particular problem etc.

In this situation we are able to claim the time back, as in if I got called at midnight on a Sunday night (I work M-F approx. office hours) and it took an hour to deal with, I could leave at 5pm instead of 6pm on another day.

The 20 min daily breaks are fine as there is a lunch hour which I can take although sometimes end up up voluntarily working through (but I'm not made to do so).

nicechap

PossiblyOverworked wrote: »

I'm not in a union.

Perhaps pay for some legal advice then.

PossiblyOverworked

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

Personally - I agree with everyone else that its not their business.

I guess its more a "matter of form" (ie protect back stuff) thing for them to mention it now.

Well - their back will be perfectly well protected if they literally don't know you are doing it. That being because you've told them what they wish to hear - ie that you've given it up (eg because you found you don't have enough time for it any longer;)). I've had to do much the same in a couple of different issues prior to retirement - and that was the end of them poking their nose in.

Then you carry on with it as per usual - but quietly this time...

Don't ask, don't tell - the best policy! My worry with that though is that I can't mention it again, so can't use that training to my advantage (like if a "Junior Teapot Spout Designer" position opens up) as it wouldn't be on record that I have that training and knowledge.

asajj

You can always show the training certificate or something similar. Alternatively, you can demonstrate that you have some knowledge if it is needed.

PossiblyOverworked

I think they're getting hung up on the "training for the benefit of the employer" or "job-related training" part of the wording of the working time regs, as it doesn't say (for instance) "training your employer has asked you to do" or "training that's a necessary part of the job" (there are some professions where you have to do a certain amount of professional development each year to keep some kind of 'chartered' status, but this isn't one of them).

getmore4less

PossiblyOverworked wrote: »

"On call" isn't an official arrangement (as in contractual) but there is an "on call" list which has been circulated with senior management, with a list of "type of issue" and "the person to call" (and their backup) about that particular issue. I am the "backup" on call person but do semi-frequently get calls as the primary person isn't available or doesn't know how to deal with that particular problem etc.

In this situation we are able to claim the time back, as in if I got called at midnight on a Sunday night (I work M-F approx. office hours) and it took an hour to deal with, I could leave at 5pm instead of 6pm on another day.

The 20 min daily breaks are fine as there is a lunch hour which I can take although sometimes end up up voluntarily working through (but I'm not made to do so).

The opportunity I was hinting at.

you make it official as HR want to poke their nose into your personal time they need to be made aware of the unofficial work that you are doing and how your study (often) gets interrupted by work calls you could add "will the same break rules apply to those?"

if HR already know why is that not covered by these rules.

Have you got any management that are sensible, have the necessary influence and would recognise HR need a gentle reminder who they work for and to drop this nonsense.

you know the place you work so need to develop a strategy to resolve this

Getting a champion more senior may be a solution.

The impact of dropping the on call into the mix is something you need to judge.

...............
The key point is that the hours you voluntary do to educate yourself are not relevant hours for any Working time regulation legislation.
If they persist ask them to highlight the specific bit of legislation they are relying on to include them in your working hours.


are you sure this is not a misunderstanding and they think because it is on you appraisal it is work driven?




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PossiblyOverworked

HR already know about "on call" hours in some sense, but have treated it unofficially so far, as in they wave through requests for time off in lieu or overtime and do the appropriate paperwork to allow that, but without regard to the "big picture" of mandated break periods (24 hrs within a week and so on) etc.

I'm pretty sure it's not a misunderstanding in as much as they know it isn't requested by the company or my line manager, that I am doing it voluntarily off my own back (bat?) But still it is highly relevant to the company's business aims and so on. (ETA: I also made it very clear on my appraisal that I have "voluntarily" and "in my own time" taken on these learning commitments, and my immediate boss seemingly endorsed it with her comments that "this shows a dedication to................" etc.)

FBaby

This thread made my day (so far). I wonder what my employer should make of my 'work' outside of paid time, that is the 'work' that most family members do, baby-sitter, cleaner, cook, teacher, carer, gardener, mechanism, handyman....

Take out 7 hours for sleep and the time I'm here (then again, isn't that training with all the learning!) and we are all way above the Working Time Regulations!

Not making fun of your thread OP, but it sounds like your HR advisor needs to go back to training or a holiday!

Manxman_in_exile

getmore4less wrote: »

are you sure this is not a misunderstanding and they think because it is on you appraisal it is work driven?

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This must surely be the case. Either that or these HR people are even dafter than usual!