working time regs & learning (training) in my own time with work relevant stuff

PossiblyOverworked

I work full time (40 hrs over 5 days) in a "career" type job but the situation at my workplace is uncertain - will I be laid off due to downsizing (has happened a few times already at this company) etc. I also have to "dial in" out of hours sometimes to help resolve problems etc.

My HR have contacted me with concerns about the Working time Regs because I am spending a lot of time studying (in my own time at home) for professional certifications and knowledge that are beneficial to me for a future move to another company if I am laid off for example, but also beneficial to the company. I have initiated the study, they didn't ask me to (boss doesn't think qualifications are worth taking). It became known to them "indirectly'.

HR says this brings me over the 48hrs a week (which I can opt out of) but more importantly brings me out of the 11 hrs rest period between shifts (as I work on it at home after work e.g work 9-6 and then work on a course 9-11pm and then 11pm to 9am isn't 11 hours) and 24/48 hr off per week as I work on it on a Sat or Sun when I get a free day so I don't get the "day off" because it's training relevant to the employer. So I have to stop doing it or they have to take action to reduce my workload (less pay) in the 9-6!

(added- they are referring to "training for the benefit of the employer" being seen as working hours according to the WTR and thats why it is being raised as it is potentially to the benefit of this employer (they don't know I am loking to leave. )

Is this legitimately "working time" and what can I do?

PasturesNew

I don't see how it is. You chose to do it; they aren't making you do it, nor funding it, nor organising it.

It's your "hobby".

You can choose when you study - where, how and if. You could look it one day and say "Bugg4h that I'm going swimming" and not be sacked... you could wake up and think "this is boring, I'll stop it" and not be sacked.

It's your hobby in your personal time.... that you are choosing to do, it's your leisure.

What if your hobby were, say, marathon running, or iron man? What if you were a footballer who trained in the gym 3-4 hours/night and every day at weekends?

Maybe they're passive/aggressively trying to get you to stop doing it, as they "fear" you leaving - and while it's OK for them to dump you at the drop of a hat, it's not OK for you to do it to them once you get your magic bit of paper.

elsien

They have no way of monitoring what you do in your own time. So unless you actually tell them the hours you're putting in to training, (which as already stated is none of their business) how do they think they'll be able to police it anyway. Ridiculous suggestion.
They are talking cobblers - what if you were doing an open university degree in a completely unrelated subject taking up just as much time? Would they expect to have right of veto over that as well? The WTD does talk about job related training, but I would think that applied to when the employer was making you do it on top of the working week.

Or you could just say you're not doing any work at the weekends - how would they know otherwise?

Manxman_in_exile

If they aren't making you do it "for work" what's it got to do with them?


How do they know you are studying anyway?

sangie595

PossiblyOverworked wrote: »

I work full time (40 hrs over 5 days) in a "career" type job but the situation at my workplace is uncertain - will I be laid off due to downsizing (has happened a few times already at this company) etc. I also have to "dial in" out of hours sometimes to help resolve problems etc.

My HR have contacted me with concerns about the Working time Regs because I am spending a lot of time studying (in my own time at home) for professional certifications and knowledge that are beneficial to me for a future move to another company if I am laid off for example, but also beneficial to the company. I have initiated the study, they didn't ask me to (boss doesn't think qualifications are worth taking). It became known to them "indirectly'.

HR says this brings me over the 48hrs a week (which I can opt out of) but more importantly brings me out of the 11 hrs rest period between shifts (as I work on it at home after work e.g work 9-6 and then work on a course 9-11pm and then 11pm to 9am isn't 11 hours) and 24/48 hr off per week as I work on it on a Sat or Sun when I get a free day so I don't get the "day off" because it's training relevant to the employer. So I have to stop doing it or they have to take action to reduce my workload (less pay) in the 9-6!

Is this legitimately "working time" and what can I do?

Good grief. If any of that were true, my employer would be permanently in breach of the law! Which would be very embarrassing for them!

Suggest that your HR department get some more training. They obviously need it. If you wish to spend your own time studying to improve your qualifications, then that is your business and nobody else's.

nicechap

I wonder if there will be a sudden piece of extra information which will mean all advice given so far is wrong?

Purely for research purposes obviously.

PossiblyOverworked

Manxman_in_exile wrote: »

If they aren't making you do it "for work" what's it got to do with them?

How do they know you are studying anyway?

What's it to do with them, I suppose because it's relevant to their business and is beneficial to my knowledge if I was intending to stay..

I'm a "teapot spout QA Analyst" (obv. not my real industry) and a possible career path for me is "teapot spout design" and the course is about "desigining tea and coffee pot spouts" for example.

How they know I am studying is I made the mistake (?) of putting it on my annual appraisal in the "training" section thinking it would be a positive!

PossiblyOverworked

nicechap wrote: »

I wonder if there will be a sudden piece of extra information which will mean all advice given so far is wrong?

Purely for research purposes obviously.

Erm... there is a whole lot of boring detail behind the scenes about meetings and stuff but I didn't think that was relevant to type out - is there anything specific you want to know?

getmore4less

How do they know how many hours and the times of those hours?

PossiblyOverworked

getmore4less wrote: »

How do they know how many hours and the times of those hours?

It came up in general conversation with the boss (She has a baby and is often awake at silly hours and I was commiserating) and separately HR asked by means of chatting in the corridor and I told them because I thought it was insignificant. (what I mean by Hr asked is something like "Oh I didn't know you were studying with the Teapot Academy until the appraisal forms came through. What's that like?... etc.)

ohreally

PossiblyOverworked wrote: »

HR asked by means of chatting in the corridor and I told them because I thought it was insignificant.

In future, limit information you pass to HR, corridor talk or not.