PCN in residential car park from Conkai Security

ForumUserOne

Hi, I have read the newbies post but am still a little confused...

I live in a block of flats, each flat has an assigned parking space and we have been given parking permits. I was parked in my assigned parking space but a PCN was placed on the window of my car. My permit was on display but had slipped down my dashboard to the lower part of the windshield, however, the name of my block was very clearly visible.

I called the management company and was told to appeal the PCN. I did this through their online system, which includes some photos they took of my car, parking signage, and PCN. Here is my appeal:

Notice Serial Number: [xxxx]
Vehicle Registration Mark (VRM): [xxxx]
As registered keeper of the vehicle, I am appealing this charge because the valid parking permit for [name of flat] was clearly displayed per photographs taken by the attendant. Additionally, I am a resident at live at [name of flat] and was correctly parked in my designated parking space. I have attached the following evidence:
• Permit.jpg - a close up picture of my parking permit, which is clearly valid
• ParkingMap.jpg - a photo of the parking map at my building showing the location of my assigned parking space, which as per the attendants pictures I was clearly parked in
• Address.jpg - proof that my vehicle is registered at the address of the assigned [name of flat]parking space: [address]

I look forward to receive confirmation of a successful appeal within 28 days.

Yours faithfully,

Unsurprisingly, this was rejected. Along with the rejection letter I also got an NTD, which I now realise I should have waited for before appealing but was following the advice of the management company. The rejection letter states “While we appreciate that you have provided us with a permit, we do not accept that this was clearly displayed as per the Terms and Conditions and we would ask you to review our photographic evidence available on [myparkingcharge website]. The Term and Conditions displayed on site state “Display a valid permit (with all details clearly visible)”. It is the motorist’s responsibility to ensure the permit is clearly displayed before leaving their vehicle. As your vehicle was observed not clearly displaying a permit, the Notice was issued correctly.”

I am now confused about my next steps. Both the rejection letter and NTD say I can appeal to IAS (the rejection letters states I am the driver, which I have not admitted to). I have until Tuesday 6 June to do this. I have taken this up with the management company again and they have said to complain to the company. Should I do this or use the IAS?

I have read around on here and it doesn’t look like Conkai Security have taken anyone to court but their sister companies have (Vehicle Control Services and Excel Parking Services). It appears the IAS is a waste of time but I think I have a good case as I was parked correctly in my assigned space. I have also checked my tenancy agreement and it states “The Property known as [address] [Including parking]”.

Another user posted an image of the exact same signage used at my flat on dropbox .com/ sc/5keof1mwlynyssk/ZuN57Gp45L
This thread seemed to indicate that I have a case as my flat contract states including parking but it refers to POPLA and is a few years old. Although the signage states BPA, my understanding is that Conkai are now members of IPC and so only use IAS.

Any advice on next steps would be very much appreciated.

Redx

not a lot you can do except argue your case in front of a judge in court , based on prmacy of contract in your lease, so a bit like the JOPSON case

the IPC and IAS is a waste of space

the PPC has 6 years to try a court case, at which point you would use all the evidence you have gathered and also various legal arguments

there are hundreds of similar residential threads on here so study those whilst awaiting an MCOL from Northampton

your lease trumps any parking control , plus your MA should have had the pcn cancelled so its also time to make life hell for them

the idea of having parking control is to keep out unwanted vehicles, not to harass a resident

if conkai and these other PPC,s moved into the 21st century they would have a digital list ov VRM details and could and should refer to it , not some outdated paper permit method that Noah through over the side of the ark many moons ago

Umkomaas

Make some enquiries of other residents. Are they falling foul of this? Garner support for a combined protest to the MA. Set up a 'closed' Facebook page 'The Residents of (your estate's address)', where updates can quickly be disseminated and actions discussed/announced.

You need to get rid of the PPC if you're (all) going to have some peace, because once they've eliminated the fly-parkers, which won't take them long, all they've got left to gorge themselves on are the residents - as you have now found to your cost.

Fruitcake

Unfortunately you revealed the driver's identity in your appeal. (You said who was parked in your space.) Fortunately this is an "own space" issue so it is not a fatal mistake.

What happened when you complained to the landowner and the MA?

As already advised, you should now stir up a stink, and wait for a court claim against you which you will win.

What precisely does your lease/AST say about parking? This will trump anything the parking scammers say or do. If there is nothing about parking, or permits, or parking charges in your lease/AST then there is no requirement for residents to show a permit at all. If that is the case, tell the scammers that you now withdraw any implied right of access to your demised space and any further tickets issued will be considered as trespass. Copy the MA in as well.

The IAS is a waste of space so don't bother with them.

Coupon-mad

No-one is telling you to pay this, BTW, when we say there is no point in any further appeal!

I have taken this up with the management company again and they have said to complain to the company. Should I do this or use the IAS?

Neither.

Read the threads by hairray and Daniel San and infernouk (search the members list, find their names, click on their names to read their threads) for examples of how to fight this robustly. Why are you even displaying a permit, why should you...? This third party firm is there to harass and fleece residents, not for the purpose the MA thinks.

ForumUserOne

Thank you all for the advice! The only part of my agreement that refers to a parking space is the first page where the property is listed as "The Property known as [address] [Including parking] and as described in Schedules 1-5". I can't see anything else that would allude to a parking space. There is a reference to a 'Superior Lease' which seems to be related to the landlord but I don't have a copy of that - I will ask my letting agent though.

The lease also mentions Passing on Notices, I wonder if the PCN counts as a as it was placed in my parking space which is part of my lease:

Pass on Notices
The Tenant will promptly give to the Landlord or his Agent a copy of any notice order or notice of any legal proceedings relating to the Property received by the Tenant from any superior Landlord government department local or public authority or other party.

Incidentally, I read that it is worth appealing to the IAS as it may help show that you have tried to resolve the dispute reasonably if it gets to court. However, my reference and vehicle number are not recognised on the IAS website - took a screen grab of this.

My intention is to write to the PPC once I have reviewed to the 'superior lease' to see if it refers to a parking space.

Coupon-mad

I read that it is worth appealing to the IAS

where did you read that rubbish? It is NOT.

Fruitcake

ForumUserOne wrote: »

Thank you all for the advice! The only part of my agreement that refers to a parking space is the first page where the property is listed as "The Property known as [address] [Including parking] and as described in Schedules 1-5". I can't see anything else that would allude to a parking space. There is a reference to a 'Superior Lease' which seems to be related to the landlord but I don't have a copy of that - I will ask my letting agent though.

The lease also mentions Passing on Notices, I wonder if the PCN counts as a as it was placed in my parking space which is part of my lease:

Pass on Notices
The Tenant will promptly give to the Landlord or his Agent a copy of any notice order or notice of any legal proceedings relating to the Property received by the Tenant from any superior Landlord government department local or public authority or other party.

Incidentally, I read that it is worth appealing to the IAS as it may help show that you have tried to resolve the dispute reasonably if it gets to court. However, my reference and vehicle number are not recognised on the IAS website - took a screen grab of this.

My intention is to write to the PPC once I have reviewed to the 'superior lease' to see if it refers to a parking space.

None of that is relevant. The keeper has not received any legal proceedings, let alone anything to do with the property. It certainly is NOT from a government department or public authority either.

Lease trumps third party (parking scammers) Ts and Cs. According to your lease there is nothing about a permit scheme or paying parking charges for not following the scammers rules. This begs the question, why are you showing a permit in the first place if it is not a requirement of your lease/AST?
If it were me I would tell the MA and parking scammers that you are withdrawing any and all implied right of access to your demised space, and any further tickets left on the keeper's car will be considered trespass. I would also send the permit back saying you are not required to join their scheme and will not display a permit as is your right in accordance with your lease/AST.

All you can do now is wait to see if you get a LBC. If you do then come back here for further advice. If that happens you should also consider a counter claim for a breach of the DPA. One resident got £900 when he did just that.
Meanwhile, keep complaining to the landowner and MA, and talk to other residents. Point them here if they have suffered the same issue. Gang up on the MA if enough people have bee affected.

The_Deep

AFAICS from the details you have given us of your lease, the parking space is part of your demised property, and no-one can charge you for not displaying a permit. Read this

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?377246-UKPC-liable-for-trespass-**SUCCESS**

You could, if you were inclined, probably make them pay not only for abusing your DPA rights, but also for trespassing on your land, and interfering with your quiet enjoyment of your property. The function of private parking companies is to manage parking for occupants, not to harass them.

ForumUserOne

Thanks for the extra info. I've held off doing anything until my letting agent sent me a copy of the 'superior lease' - what they have provided me with is a "house rules" document from the property management company, which I haven't seen before. This just lists rules on things like rubbish, noise restrictions, communal spaces, etc. On parking it says:

• PARKING
o Not to park any vehicle other than a permitted vehicle in the parking space allocated.
o Not to at any time obstruct access for emergency vehicles onto the site.

What's your interpretation of this?

pappa_golf

define "Not to park any vehicle other than a permitted vehicle in the parking space allocated. "

have the management Co got your VRN on file

there will be a section that states n commercial vehicles , no scrap cars . etc etc , does your vehicle fall into this class?