Betting company taken money but won't accept identity and won't refund

wealdroam

Dischordant wrote: »

Thanks Guys - I guess I just have to keep trying to jump through their hoops. Basically they started being crazy with not accepting my security evidence so I just used a different website to place the bet and told them to just cancel it.

I was betting on a hung parliament odds of 5 to 1.

Despite earlier discussions, you still haven't clarified... did you get as far as placing a bet with betstars or not?

Dischordant

I had placed the bet at the same time the deposit was made then it immediately locked my account and the money didn't go out of my bank account. After I emailed them to cancel both the bet and the deposit they then proceeded to take the money out of my bank account.

One of the pieces of evidence they want is a bank statement that shows the card details on it. My bank statements only show my sort code and account number + transactions. I rang my bank and they said it wasn't possible as it would be a security risk to send out a bank statement with a card number on it.

I have already given them:
Photos of My Passport,
Photos of My Driving license,
All details completed on the Validation form,
A recent council tax bill,
My last utility bill for electricity and gas,
My last full statement,
My current bank statement showing the transaction of them having taken out the money.
A Photo of the front of my bank account card.

Takeaway_Addict

Dischordant wrote: »

I had placed the bet at the same time the deposit was made then it immediately locked my account and the money didn't go out of my bank account. After I emailed them to cancel both the bet and the deposit they then proceeded to take the money out of my bank account.

One of the pieces of evidence they want is a bank statement that shows the card details on it. My bank statements only show my sort code and account number + transactions. I rang my bank and they said it wasn't possible as it would be a security risk to send out a bank statement with a card number on it.

I apologise to those above!

Chrysalis

I had a similar situation with smarkets.

The site happily took my payment and allowed me to place a bet of which I won.

However they then decided to withdraw I need to provide proof I am 18.

If proof of age is required then that should be required before making deposits, not after they have taken the money. That to me is whats dodgy.

They accepted my passport, however my passport is now on their files which obviously opens the possibility of it been misused.

takman

Dischordant wrote: »

I had placed the bet at the same time the deposit was made then it immediately locked my account and the money didn't go out of my bank account. After I emailed them to cancel both the bet and the deposit they then proceeded to take the money out of my bank account.

One of the pieces of evidence they want is a bank statement that shows the card details on it. My bank statements only show my sort code and account number + transactions. I rang my bank and they said it wasn't possible as it would be a security risk to send out a bank statement with a card number on it.

I have already given them:
Photos of My Passport,
Photos of My Driving license,
All details completed on the Validation form,
A recent council tax bill,
My last utility bill for electricity and gas,
My last full statement,
My current bank statement showing the transaction of them having taken out the money.
A Photo of the front of my bank account card.

The money will have been taken immediately, they wouldn't have let you use money to place a bet that they hadn't already authorised from your card.

Once you have placed a bet you cannot cancel it and expect a refund. This is due to the fact that odds change all the time, so if anyone could cancel a bet then they could easily play the system. So you only need to worry about verifying your account if you win the bet. If you loose the bet then you have nothing to worry about because the money will be gone.

I have no idea why you are finding it so difficult to verify your identity with them. I have done matched better so i have had to verify three accounts and never had many problems. The only problem i did have was one didn't accept photos so i had to scan it in instead, which they then accepted.

Chrysalis wrote: »

I had a similar situation with smarkets.

The site happily took my payment and allowed me to place a bet of which I won.

However they then decided to withdraw I need to provide proof I am 18.

If proof of age is required then that should be required before making deposits, not after they have taken the money. That to me is whats dodgy.

They accepted my passport, however my passport is now on their files which obviously opens the possibility of it been misused.

Not all sites will ask every customer to identify themselves and some betting sites verify people using an identity check on their credit report.

So if they asked people to show proof of identity every time they signed up it would put a lot of people off and they might not even need to if the person just places a bet and looses. So that's why they only do it when you make a withdrawal and not for every person.

Out of the 20+ sites i have made withdrawals from I've only had to prove my identity three times.

angryparcel

Dischordant wrote: »

I had placed the bet at the same time the deposit was made then it immediately locked my account and the money didn't go out of my bank account. After I emailed them to cancel both the bet and the deposit they then proceeded to take the money out of my bank account.

you placed a bet, so not refunds as other have said.

you really need to learn how banks work
If you look these days you usually see 2 amounts
bank balance and available balance

Bank Balance will show what you have in your account
Available Balance will tell you how much you have to use

so say you have £1000 in your account and you placed this bet of £150
your account will show £1000, but the available balance will show £850 as £150 has been requested. it could take minutes or a few days for the recipient to actually claim the £150 and once they do the bank balance will drop to £850.
so this is what they would have done, so it looks like they took the money after you asked the to cancel the bet

Chrysalis

takman wrote: »

So if they asked people to show proof of identity every time they signed up it would put a lot of people off and they might not even need to if the person just places a bet and looses. So that's why they only do it when you make a withdrawal and not for every person.

Out of the 20+ sites i have made withdrawals from I've only had to prove my identity three times.

You realise it illegal to bet under 18 dont you, what you are describing is they are allowing betting to under 18s. Obviously I have worked out why they doing this, its so their sales data isnt harmed by the age verification process, but allowing the bet to take place, the damage is already done.

If I was a 15 year old, the law would already be broken before they asked for my proof of age.

You think if a kid entered a betting shop they would take the bet but only make a fuss if the kid wins and tries to withdraw?

takman

Chrysalis wrote: »

You realise it illegal to bet under 18 dont you, what you are describing is they are allowing better to under 18s. Obviously I have worked out why they doing this, its so their sales data isnt harmed by the age verification process, but allowing the bet to take place, the damage is already done.

If I was a 15 year old, the law would already be broken before they asked for my proof of age.

You think if a kid entered a betting shop they would take the bet but only make a fuss if the kid wins and tries to withdraw?

Yes obviously they want to limit the difficulty of placing a bet otherwise it will put people off.

But they seem to operate along the line of just asking your date of birth, name and address when signing up as being acceptable proof of your age to make a bet. Then when you make a withdrawal this triggers your account to be verified which may result in a request for identification. If there was any legal problems with this process then i'm sure every site wouldn't operate like this.

A kid walking into a betting shop is a completely different scenario because they can usually see they are too young. Plus if you look old enough then in a betting shop you don't even have to show proof of ID or give them any personal details.

But if you compare this to buying alcohol and tobacco online then most sites don't even ask for your age!

Chrysalis

Smarkets is the only site I am aware of doing this.

Asking for DOB is adequate which is why what they doing is compliant, it makes the verification process on withdrawal redundant tho which is my argument Although the government wants this changed so that asking for DOB is no longer adequate proof of age.

There is no legislation requiring for age ID to withdraw winnings. Also note that you can deposit, change your mind and then withdraw again, this also requires photo ID at smarkets.

So once the bet is taken, any age verification is pointless. You have one of 2 scenarios.

1 - Either the person is old enough and they will pass.
2 - Its a kid but they used their parent's card, and as such when the parent finds out they will get the money back anyway.

Seems smarket are doing it just to cling on for money longer.

takman

Chrysalis wrote: »

Smarkets is the only site I am aware of doing this.

Asking for DOB is adequate which is why what they doing is compliant, it makes the verification process on withdrawal redundant tho which is my argument Although the government wants this changed so that asking for DOB is no longer adequate proof of age.

There is no legislation requiring for age ID to withdraw winnings. Also note that you can deposit, change your mind and then withdraw again, this also requires photo ID at smarkets.

So once the bet is taken, any age verification is pointless. You have one of 2 scenarios.

1 - Either the person is old enough and they will pass.
2 - Its a kid but they used their parent's card, and as such when the parent finds out they will get the money back anyway.

Seems smarket are doing it just to cling on for money longer.

All the ones i had to provide ID for have asked for it after a withdrawal attempt. Other ones who didn't ask but shows a withdrawal status usually had some part of the process called "verification" or similar. So it seems to be the standard way across all the betting sites.

I can see your reasoning about age verification but its just extra protection for them. If they verify the age after a withdrawal attempt it means that they should never pay money out to someone underage. So in your scenario of the kid using their parents card, if the kid won and got the money into their parents bank account it would be more difficult for them to have to retrieve the winnings they paid out than for them to not allow the withdrawal and eventually only pay out the initial deposit.

Also don't forget children may also have their own card and attempt to use that as swell.