Resigned "constructively" , but .....

Hounded_out

nicechap wrote: »

That really is the crux, the OP appears to enjoy belittling other users like he/she is a headmaster telling off primary school children.

But no one cares what the OP thinks given his/her inability to sting a consistent story together.

Speaks volumes about the OP.

What is so strange about certain members on this forum is that they often appear to focus on abuse more than offering constructive feedback. I am also somewhat to blame in this regard, but it is too easy to get drawn into replying to some of the childish posts. Anyhow, can members kindly comment on the interesting and relevant case that I posted in my last reply.

Wyndham

Hounded_out wrote: »

What is so strange about certain members on this forum is that they often appear to focus on abuse more than offering constructive feedback. I am also somewhat to blame in this regard, but it is too easy to get drawn into replying to some of the childish posts. Anyhow, can members kindly comment on the interesting and relevant case that I posted in my last reply.

We're actually a bunch of random strangers on the internet. It's Sunday afternoon, maybe we're a bit bored, reading the forums to see what is happening. I want to ask why you think we're all experts, but suspect I may regret it if I do!

In my experience there are some very good, helpful, people on this forum (as there are on any other), and some who are not. You can't assume that advice given here is correct, and to do so shows a naivety about the internet that is more usual in someone who is very new to it.

Right, I'm done. And I know I'm going to regret rising to this....!

LilElvis

Hounded_out wrote: »

What is so strange about certain members on this forum is that they often appear to focus on abuse more than offering constructive feedback. I am also somewhat to blame in this regard, but it is too easy to get drawn into replying to some of the childish posts. Anyhow, can members kindly comment on the interesting and relevant case that I posted in my last reply.

Why would anyone wish to engage further with you after you posted this, and given your (low) opinion of the members of this forum why would you be interested in their response? Unless you just want to waste more of everyone's time.

Hounded_out wrote: »

Hi all, I am frankly appalled at the quality of the so called guidance offered on this employment mini forum.

I asked a simple question and very few members came even close to giving a concise answer. Yes, the reality is that I did largely know the answer to my own question before I asked it. I was just interested to see what the MSE "experts" had to say about the matter. Why you may even have been able to offer some far reaching and superior knowledge.

The reality is that I thought I'd suss out the MSE forum for "research purposes" by asking for simple guidance and compare and contrast your credibility with that of the ACAS Helpline.

You do not know all the facts, and to be fair neither did ACAS when I have spoken to them re the same matter.

ACAS simply asked for a brief summary of the situation and were then able to offer guidance in regard to the question that had been raised.

I also gave MSE a brief summary and also asked a fairly simple question.

For the majority of times your responses were balderdash. Some did answer my simple query, but the majority of responders should with respect simply reign it in and may be better to do something else in life rather than making unfounded and uninspiring comments or offering judgement. You appear to have overly sensitive or inflated egos and on occasions comes across as being rather defensive. Some members also clearly seek to bolster themselves via mutual “back patting”.

I am not being personal. I am merely passing on comments that may assist other new members to gain a more balanced perspective on the limitations of a forum that sets itself out to offer input on key matters such as workplace disputes.

The reality is that a member of the public would be far far better guided to contact the ACAS Helpline. They are professional and though they do not, and can not offer legal advice, their guidance does for the main part appear to be consistent and accurate.

Apologies for taking up your valuable time and for being rather sneaky. My criticism is, however, I believe justified. I gave you some facts and asked a simple question. Your answers for the main part were either off the mark or irrelevant. Well done ACAS. As for this forum, please, please get your act together. You may be doing more harm than good.

FBaby

I will try to provide constructive advice. It sounds like you are working for the NHS?

So, I end up with a final warning and am told verbally by same manager two weeks back - a discussion i thankfully accidentally taped - that as i have a final warning I'll soon be out of work as the firm are planning some staff cutbacks and anyone with a poor disc record will be top of the list.

The entire case lies upon this. Before that, it sounds like you were disciplined because of a complaint. You are making allegations that this complaint never happened. Maybe, but very unlikely.

You were disciplined and not dismissed, only got a written warning. That would have had no consequences unless you needed to be disciplined again. The case would have totally dropped out of your file after 12 months.

It is common for people in the NHS (and elsewhere) to receive written warnings and go to remain employ by their organisation for many more years. As a matter of fact, some of these people even end up being promoted! Therefore your argument that you had no choice but to resign is very unlikely to hold.

It then takes you to the second part of the case that your manager told you that you would be outed next because of the disciplinary. You say you've recorded it. Firstly, that recording would need to be admitted. Did they know they were being recorded? Secondly, there is a chance that your interpreted their words to mean what you wrote, but could be interpreted very differently by a judge as persuaded by a good solicitor.
Thirdly, and that's the key one. You can expect the solicitor to inform the judge that the organisation have procedures to deal with such behaviour and as such, you would have been expected to raise a grievance against your boss.

What they will say is that you had other avenues opened to you to deal with the situation rather than handing your notice.

This is why I am not one bit surprise that Unison wouldn't take up your case because they know, from experience, that it has little chance of success.

LilElvis

FBaby wrote: »

I will try to provide constructive advice.

Sadly you have just wasted your time.

Read my post a couple before yours and you will find that the OP has no employment issue, rather a totally different agenda.

nicechap

FBaby wrote: »

.....
This is why I am not one bit surprise that Unison wouldn't take up your case because they know, from experience, that it has little chance of success.

I suspect its because they are not in Unison. Its the OP's other thread where they are asking about a friend working in NHS who appears not to be in favour with the union either,.

No doubt another miraculous ET finding will be produced to make any advice proffered look silly.

Good luck with helping them.

Geoff1963

None of this may be of any practical help, but I'll say it anyway . . .

he made what i considered to be advances towards me in late Jan this year. I asked him to stop. I raised a complaint but it was not taken seriously as the investigator was i believe somewhat of a friend of his. Anyhow, in past 3 months I've been accused by manager - via a customer - of a fabricated complaint - i am customer facing. I am confident the complaint was a set up but I was not allowed to ask any questions of the unhappy customer myself as it was deemed to not be appropriate to do so. So I was suspended and dragged thru a demeaning disciplinary process. I asked for witnesses to be called who could speak up for me or act as character witnesses, but guess what they were not available - i called for some ex colleagues to be interviewed, inc one who claims to have also been propositioned by same manager late last year. In response I was told that by disciplinary chair that it was not appropriate or practical to interview or call in ex- colleagues.

Did the advances stop as soon as you told him to stop ? If they carried on, that is more serious than if they immediately stopped. Did you make the complaint on the basis of activity which had stopped, or was ongoing ? Did HR offer to move you ?

So the disciplinary chair is : using the evidence of some non-employees ( the customer ), but not other non-employees ( the ex-colleagues ). Seems unreasonable.
Have any customers made ( rejected ) advances ? That might have prompted their complaint.

Even though you were unable to ask questions of the unhappy customer, were you given enough information to understand the grounds for complaint ? How easy would it have been for the manager to create an unhappy customer ; are the customers general public ? Is the manager the point of contact for customer complaints, and if so, did it come through the proper channels ? For the manager to judge you were at fault, he should have needed some very convincing evidence ; and your questions suggest gaps in that argument.

foxtrotoscar_2

No help is actually needed Geoff1963 as the whole scenario is a fabrication.

Manxman_in_exile

Geoff1963 wrote: »

None of this may be of any practical help, but I'll say it anyway . . .



Did the advances stop as soon as you told him to stop ? If they carried on, that is more serious than if they immediately stopped. Did you make the complaint on the basis of activity which had stopped, or was ongoing ? Did HR offer to move you ?

So the disciplinary chair is : using the evidence of some non-employees ( the customer ), but not other non-employees ( the ex-colleagues ). Seems unreasonable.
Have any customers made ( rejected ) advances ? That might have prompted their complaint.

Even though you were unable to ask questions of the unhappy customer, were you given enough information to understand the grounds for complaint ? How easy would it have been for the manager to create an unhappy customer ; are the customers general public ? Is the manager the point of contact for customer complaints, and if so, did it come through the proper channels ? For the manager to judge you were at fault, he should have needed some very convincing evidence ; and your questions suggest gaps in that argument.

Geoff - your wasting your time.


The OP scenario is fabricated. The OP made up an entirely unlikely set of facts to ask a very specific question about when resignation was deemed to take place. They then cited (post #57 I think) a Supreme Court decision which the OP thinks supports their point of view (but with an entirely different set of facts from the OP).


They may be right or they may be wrong. But you're wasting your time.

Geoff1963

A poster on MSE has wasted my time. Can I sue ? :rotfl: