Resigned "constructively" , but .....

Hounded_out

Thanks again masmonia but please see my last post. They, or i will claim, that they have fundamenatally breached my contract, thus I believe the term, well according to ACAS, was that my contract has been repudiated .... i,e. is null and void - as such the terms no longer apply. by staying on board for another would weaken, not strengthen my case.... whilst at the same time helping my employer's defence.

phillw

Hounded_out wrote: »

Thanks again masmonia but please see my last post. They, or i will claim, that they have fundamenatally breached my contract, thus I believe the term, well according to ACAS, was that my contract has been repudiated .... i,e. is null and void - as such the terms no longer apply. by staying on board for another would weaken, not strengthen my case.... whilst at the same time helping my employer's defence.

As long as you have acted in good faith and are following the advice of ACAS then even if the tribunal doesn't find in your favour, then it's unlikely that you'd be forced to be bound by the notice term of your contract.

They can't do much if you're signed off in any case. I can't see that it would hurt your case if you sent in a sick note to receive SSP though. But ACAS are likely to be able to offer more information.

Masomnia

phillw wrote: »

They can't do much if you're signed off in any case. I can't see that it would hurt your case if you sent in a sick note to receive SSP though. But ACAS are likely to be able to offer more information.

You need to be employed to get SSP so if HO wishes to claim that the contract is no longer valid and she is no longer employed then I think it would harm her case.

Getting advice is a good idea.

phillw

Masomnia wrote: »

You need to be employed to get SSP so if HO wishes to claim that the contract is no longer valid and she is no longer employed then I think it would harm her case.

Getting advice is a good idea.

I wouldn't admit to knowing anything about constructive dismissal to them and whether I considered the contract was still valid or not. I might send in a sick note with a covering letter re-iterating the grievances and that you are starting the process and see how they react. If they pay and they try to make out that helps their case then you have an argument that you just did what they asked as you felt threatened and didn't accept any of their behaviour by actually working there. If they don't pay then you can decide later to make a claim for withholding of wages.

But ACAS should be able to offer more advice.

Undervalued

Hounded_out wrote: »

Tnank you for your comments Agrinal and Alderbank - what similar names. As far as I am aware, and as ACAS guided, an employer has a right to summarily dismiss an employee (i.e. without honouring the contractual notice ) for gross misconduct or a fundamental breach of trust and confidence. Conversely, and again as ACAS guided, an employee has a right to summarily resign if an employer fundamentally breaches the implied term of trust and confidence and/or commits an act of poor conduct themselves. A free legal clinic, via CAB, said the same, but then wanted £2K to give any more advice.

Apparently by working notice that can be tantamount to accepting that the emlpoyers breaches were not that bad, or fundamentally wrong..

Yes, but only if the alleged breaches are serious enough. It is all a question of degree.

ACAS do not give legal advice. At the first level you are dealing with a call centre staffed by people with limited training who are largely reading from a script. Keep that in mind.

The fact that the "free legal clinic" wanted £2K to advise you properly confirms that it is not straightforward by any means.

The vast majority of constructive dismissal claims fail, well over 90% so you have created a high hurdle to get yourself over. Maybe your case is one of the few that will succeed but you will need some proper detailed advice and that is likely to come at significant cost.

Undervalued

Hounded_out wrote: »

Thanks again masmonia but please see my last post. They, or i will claim, that they have fundamenatally breached my contract, thus I believe the term, well according to ACAS, was that my contract has been repudiated .... i,e. is null and void - as such the terms no longer apply. by staying on board for another would weaken, not strengthen my case.... whilst at the same time helping my employer's defence.

Sorry but whilst under certain circumstances there is some truth in what you say, that is with respect a very simplistic view. You need (or rather needed) proper one to one legal advice before resigning in such circumstances. That is not ACAS's function.

Alderbank

Hounded, the basis of your claim is that the two investigations (the 'advances' and the customer complaint) were not dealt with correctly. Did you raise a formal grievance according to company procedure following either case? If so, what was the outcome? Also, are you a member of a Trade Union (e.g. USDAW)?

TyreLever

Undervalued wrote: »

Yes, but only if the alleged breaches are serious enough. It is all a question of degree.

ACAS do not give legal advice. At the first level you are dealing with a call centre staffed by people with limited training who are largely reading from a script. Keep that in mind.

The fact that the "free legal clinic" wanted £2K to advise you properly confirms that it is not straightforward by any means.

The vast majority of constructive dismissal claims fail, well over 90% so you have created a high hurdle to get yourself over. Maybe your case is one of the few that will succeed but you will need some proper detailed advice and that is likely to come at significant cost.

2 f'in grand mind! Advice is what OP wanted, not a dead body, altho the latter seems just as appropriate in this case. This is one reason why so many employers get away with unacceptable behaviour.
Been in and out of work since I was 18, now that im 30 I finally got a reasonable and permanent job (had 1 or 2 decent temp positions). Its not perfect but far above how some employers operate. Its alarming how many Mcjobs are out there.

Personally in the OP's position I wouldnt go back. As others have said, stay on the sick until the termination date.

PHILANTHROPIST

Undervalued wrote: »

Yes, but only if the alleged breaches are serious enough. It is all a question of degree.

ACAS do not give legal advice. At the first level you are dealing with a call centre staffed by people with limited training who are largely reading from a script. Keep that in mind.

The fact that the "free legal clinic" wanted £2K to advise you properly confirms that it is not straightforward by any means.

The vast majority of constructive dismissal claims fail, well over 90% so you have created a high hurdle to get yourself over. Maybe your case is one of the few that will succeed but you will need some proper detailed advice and that is likely to come at significant cost.

With respect nobody seems to be clearly answering the simple query or presumption raised by the OP.

Hounded is most likely correct. By resigning with immediate effect as a result of an alleged - or in this case apparent - fundamental breach of both express (halving hours -in the alternative a possible "anticipatory breach") and implied (trust and confidence / duty of care) terms then that amounts to an alleged repudiatory breach. The OP will, or should, have accepted the employer's - alleged - fundamental breach. As such the employee is right to then proceed under the legal basis that the contract is repudiated. Thus, the requirement to work a notice period is then irrelevant and moreover to do so would be foolhardy. Yes the HR person is trying to trick the OP. In their defence they are only doing their job, and many HR staff have no legal training themselves.

We do not know the pros and cons of the case, nor its true merit, and thus cannot, and do not wish to, comment further. But, I wish the OP the best of luck.

Yes, ACAS do not offer legal advice, but they are no fools and would doubtless have offered helpful guidance.

Underv - please kindly quote your source re over 90% of constructive - unfair - dismissal claims failing. Yes odds are well below 50%, but over 90%? Many such claims in any event are settled out of Tribunal as the employer can spend well upwards of £10K - £15K in unrecoverable legal costs to defend such potentially complicated claims.

Undervalued

TyreLever wrote: »

2 f'in grand mind! Advice is what OP wanted, not a dead body, altho the latter seems just as appropriate in this case. This is one reason why so many employers get away with unacceptable behaviour.
Been in and out of work since I was 18, now that im 30 I finally got a reasonable and permanent job (had 1 or 2 decent temp positions). Its not perfect but far above how some employers operate. Its alarming how many Mcjobs are out there.

Personally in the OP's position I wouldnt go back. As others have said, stay on the sick until the termination date.

Good rant but poor advice I'm afraid!

The OP has resigned with immediate effect and wants to claim constructive dismissal. If he now agrees to give a month's notice (whether worked or covered by sick notes) he will lose what little chance he has of making a CD claim. OK he will get some sick pay but that is all.

CD cases such as this are complex, particularly when the internal grievance procedures have not been followed. That is why proper professional advice is needed. Yes I know £2K is a lot of money when you are paying it but it doesn't buy many hours of an experienced solicitor's time. Sadly that is the way it is.