No Stopping/Parking Zone

Richyhartley

Hello, just after some advice please,

As the registered keeper i received a parking charge notice from "Vehicle Control Services Limited" on behalf of "Gallagher Leisure Park"

After reading through the internet about parking charge notices, this invoice points to a private firm trying to scare me into paying them, so i'm just after some reassurance on not paying this from this first letter and starting an appeal.

After visiting the area, the signs font is too small to be legible whilst in control of a vehicle, further more there are no road markings suggesting a stopping prohibition. I assume the charge is in place for the nearby football stadium which is understandable on a match day, but as the football season had ended prior to this notice, i see no way that any business lost any money from the vehicle being parked there for the 33 seconds the pictures time stamps refer to.

There is 3 pictures of the keeper's car in the letter, the sign is also in shot, the vehicle was only parked about 5 meters past it to add insult to injury!

The letter is on behalf of Gallagher Leisure park, who i assume, owns the land with a hotel, a pub, and fast food restaurants on it, adjacent to the road in question.

Any help is appreciated thanks

Redx

you wont win on the "excessive charge" analogy , not since the BEAVIS case was lost 18 months ago

the NEWBIES sticky thread explains all this , read the IPC and IAS advice

and this blog too http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2016/12/signage-at-liverpool-business-park.html

and

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2017/02/vehicle-control-services-issue-charge.html

and

http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t104362.html

no idea what you mean about "not paying is ok" ?

VCS have 6 years to try a court case using MCOL , in the small claims court , which they may do, so know what you are up against is all we can tell you

the advice is to appeal once , as keeper, then ignore unless you get an LBC or an MCOL within 6 years

the choice on what to do is yours, once you are awarew what the consequences may be

do not admit who was driving , to anyone , so edit your post accordingly (use the terms DRIVER and KEEPER only)

and its not a "fine" , its an invoice

fisherjim

Forget the yellow lines argument this is private land not a highway yellow lines not a requirement, this is an unregulated money making scam industry.

Richyhartley

Can someone explain this invoice/fine/charge terminology because its confusing, a couple other websites declare that only the council and police have the legal right to fine people for parking charges, and the keeper recieved the letter through the post, no recorded deliviery so they can't even know the keeper recieved the letter? And this website also echo's that the only way the firm can legally take money from the keeper is to take him/her to court, in which case a small claims court hearing is arranged?

The part i don't understand is that is it's a road the runs next to a small retail park, there were no other cars around, therefore safe to stop, the sign is unreadable whilst driving, there are no road markings to enforce a parking/stopping prohabition,

So am i the only one to think its a joke of a £100/£60 charge?

Appealing the "charge" as its worded in the letter, can take up to 28 days, so then its way past the 14 day reduced payment option? I have the right to appeal but if i do and fail i have to pay more anyway? Seems like a trap door to me

Richyhartley

RedX the last link you posted on your first comment on pepipoo, its the same road as this

Redx

a private company cannot issue a fine or a penalty, only an invoice , so you have been sent a private invoice for this perceived private contract and they allege that you owe them money, this is called a parking charge notice , whereas you incorrectly called it a "fine" ) only YOU are calling it by that name , nobody else is)

if you fail to pay an invoice then the company who sent it (for whatever reason) can take you to the small claims court and ask a judge to enforce it (like you see almost daily on Judge Rinder on ITV)

its a private road so they can do as they like with it, but they have to convince a judge if they want to make you pay what they say

as I said earlier, since the BARRY BEAVIS case a judge may well decide that the charge of £100 is "reasonable" and its also the "norm" for BPA and for IPC members if you read their CoP (available from their websites)

so it doesnt matter if we or you think it is unreasonable , what matters is what a judge thinks , and any judge may well follow the Beavis Supreme Court decision , which is what VCS will argue is correct (we and you may think its not)

you only HAVE to pay if a judge says so, in court , the final sum is what the judge would determine , in the judgment that he or she hands down , so unless a judge says you have to pay , then you dont have to pay

this is true in any small claims case, not just about parking per se

and yes I know its the same retail park , or business park, which is why I added it to my reply after I posted the reply, because I edited it an added helpful links

if you do appeal you are going through the motions, because a PPC rarely backs down and allow an appeal , any appeal , especially not VCS , who issue thousands at airports like RHA and LJLA

and you still have not edited post #1 !!! (and post #4 now as well)

do you not think that VCS or B W LEGAL can access this site and take screenshots ?

they did with lamilad and his court case (EXCEL / VCS , sister companies owned by the same owner)

Richyhartley

Ok thanks Redx, i've done as you advised, if you wouldn't mind having another look i'd be grateful, so in a nutshell, you'd say appeal and hope for the best from that, if it goes any further, load up on evidence in the event of VCS taking me to court?

Redx

the posts look better , and your assumptions above are correct, but dont expect a cancellation as its extremely unlikely

and bear in mind that the PPC do not have to prove the keeper received any letters, they only have to prove they sent them , because in law they are deemed "delivered" 2 days after posting

so proof of posting is all they need , not proof of delivery

yes , get evidence and learn about the court process, also reading similar cases for airports as I said earlier

and a judge may decide that if yellow or red lines are painted on private land , the motorist should follow the same "rules" as if they were on a public road , because that is the behaviour expected from a qualified motorist

fisherjim

Richyhartley wrote: »

Can someone explain this invoice/fine/charge terminology because its confusing, a couple other websites declare that only the council and police have the legal right to fine people for parking charges, and the keeper recieved the letter through the post, no recorded deliviery so they can't even know the keeper recieved the letter? And this website also echo's that the only way the firm can legally take money from the keeper is to take him/her to court, in which case a small claims court hearing is arranged?

The part i don't understand is that is it's a road the runs next to a small retail park, there were no other cars around, therefore safe to stop, the sign is unreadable whilst driving, there are no road markings to enforce a parking/stopping prohabition,

So am i the only one to think its a joke of a £100/£60 charge?

Appealing the "charge" as its worded in the letter, can take up to 28 days, so then its way past the 14 day reduced payment option? I have the right to appeal but if i do and fail i have to pay more anyway? Seems like a trap door to me

A letter is deemed served two days after posting, the recorded delivery argument doesn't work.
Yellow lines on a private road are just pretty colours they only really have meaning on the highway.
Bad signage can be a winning appeal point.
Discounts are really just a bribe to get you to pay up without a fuss with as little cost or trouble for the scammers.

Richyhartley

Redx wrote: »

the posts look better , and your assumptions above are correct, but dont expect a cancellation as its extremely unlikely

and bear in mind that the PPC do not have to prove the keeper received any letters, they only have to prove they sent them , because in law they are deemed "delivered" 2 days after posting

so proof of posting is all they need , not proof of delivery

yes , get evidence and learn about the court process, also reading similar cases for airports as I said earlier

and a judge may decide that if yellow or red lines are painted on private land , the motorist should follow the same "rules" as if they were on a public road , because that is the behaviour expected from a qualified motorist

Yes thanks, the signage references contained in the Liverpool business park video apply here too, non of the legislation on road signage is met, the sign is question is referred to on the web page as "subsidiary" so you are aware of the type of sign.