Atos Home Visit

poppy12345

You need permission to record the assessments. If you don't have this and they catch you they'll stop the assessment.

Prinzessilein

poppy12345 wrote: »

I believe they changed the descriptors for mental health making it extremely difficult to get awarded more than 4 points for "planning and following a journey. If i'm wrong then i'm sure someone with more knowledge than me will reply.

This is correct in my understanding...and in my experience of a recent PiP home assessment.

I cannot plan the route of a journey, I cannot follow the route of an unfamiliar journey, and on most occasions I cannot follow the route of a familiar journey without assistance.....HOWEVER, the reason for this is psychological distress - which for me would (and has on the past) result in severe distress for me, and for anyone near me as I can get a truly foul mouth when I am stressed (much of the time I am mute...when ueber stressed I can start to swear percussively, shouting out really vile stuff....it is linked to Tourettes)...and I also try to run from 'perceived' danger ignoring minor things like cars!...and I will physically hit out at myself or anyone near me if I feel stressed..... this is all 'stress-reated' so I score ZERO points for those descriptors.

I was awarded 4 points for needing prompting on any journey (even though all the prompting in the world will not get me out of my flat on a 'bad' day)

In addition, I was awarded 4 points for 'moving around'...can move more than 50m but no more than 200 m .

I believe there are court cases underway to challenge the change in descriptors. I sincerely hope they are successful, for far too long mental health has been dismissed by successive governments.

Sam_Fallow

poppy12345 wrote: »

You need permission to record the assessments. If you don't have this and they catch you they'll stop the assessment.

I know.

Don't care.

With the stress and anxiety involved in the assessment it's easy to doubt your own convictions later on.
'Did I really say that?'
'Did they really ask the question that way?' etc.

It's easy to doubt your own sanity when the report comes back, so having an accurate record of the event, to bolster any appeal, is reassuring.

I wish I had done it on the first assessment with the ex-GP who's report was full of inaccuracies, lies and contradictions.

Alice_Holt

Sam_Fallow wrote: »

I know.

Don't care.

A much better option to a secret recording (which as poppy says risks your claim) is to take a family member / friend / advocate along with you to the assessment and ask them to take notes of the PIP assessment.

If the assessment is flawed, their evidence can be submitted to a tribunal panel. (A secret recording is very unlikely to be accepted as credible evidence by the Tribunal Service).

If you can get medical evidence from your GP / CPN / other health professional which contradicts the assessors conclusions, then this together with the third party's evidence of a flawed assessment process, will go a long way to overturning the decision at a tribunal hearing.

I can understand the anger, frustration, etc of having experienced bad assessments But the way to right these injustices is to use your appeal rights following the correct processes, putting together the strongest case you can.

It is possible to officially record the assessment (perhaps because of memory issues):
http://www.atoshealthcare.com/pip/faq_view/recording_my_consultation
but a secret recording could cause your claim to fail. (And may also cause a tribunal panel to view you as a not having credibility as an appellant).

Mojisola

Alice_Holt wrote: »

A much better option to a secret recording (which as poppy says risks your claim) is to take a family member / friend / advocate along with you to the assessment and ask them to take notes of the PIP assessment.

If the assessment is flawed, their evidence can be submitted to a tribunal panel.

I was present at an assessment my son had which was followed by a report full of lies. Even though there were two of us and one assessor, our challenge was ignored as just our word against hers and not proof.

Get permission to record or ask for recording equipment to be provided (depending on which benefit you are claiming).

Alice_Holt

Mojisola wrote: »

I was present at an assessment my son had which was followed by a report full of lies. Even though there were two of us and one assessor, our challenge was ignored as just our word against hers and not proof.

At tribunal, the panel have to lay out in their statement of reasons why one set of evidence was preferred to another piece of evidence.
If they fail in their duty to do this, an appeal to the Upper Tribunal on an error of law is likely to succeed.

So, the key to a successful tribunal is to provide compelling evidence.
1) You have your own medical evidence contradicting the ATOS assessors conclusion,
2) You have 3rd party evidence of a flawed assessment,
3) You have submitted a statement to the tribunal explaining how the relevant activities and points apply,
4) Your PIP form is clear on how your condition affects your ability to perform the activities reliably, and clearly gets you to 8 (plus) points,
5) Your own verbal evidence to the tribunal panel is consistent and outlines relevant examples / illustrations relating to the PIP descriptors:

Then any first tier tribunal which overrode all of this evidence to conclude that the DWP assessment still stood, would very likely be subject to a successful Upper Tribunal appeal on an error of law.

Sam_Fallow

Alice_Holt wrote: »

A much better option to a secret recording (which as poppy says risks your claim) is to take a family member / friend / advocate along with you to the assessment and ask them to take notes of the PIP assessment.

We learnt our lesson after the first one and have a witness from my local carer's assoc. All our assessments have been home visits.

Alice_Holt wrote: »

I can understand the anger, frustration, etc of having experienced bad assessments But the way to right these injustices is to use your appeal rights following the correct processes, putting together the strongest case you can.

Went through all the processes of appeal after the first assessment and had to wait 18 months for a tribunal. During that wait we were broke and broken. My own mental health suffered greatly because of that debacle and anyone's memory is questionable after that length of time.

Alice_Holt

Sam_Fallow wrote: »

Went through all the processes of appeal after the first assessment and had to wait 18 months for a tribunal. During that wait we were broke and broken. My own mental health suffered greatly because of that debacle and anyone's memory is questionable after that length of time.

That's terrible.
The introduction of PIP was an administrative disgrace. The government failed to put in place the correct infrastructure to ensure claims were dealt with promptly and accurately. Some claimants died before their claims were assessed, with the eventual proceeds credited to their estate.
The Tribunal Service were overwhelmed with appeals from the many flawed assessments, and had to appoint new tribunal panels.
IMO it was a scandal, but received very little press coverage. And even less concern from those elected to represent us.

Now thankfully, appeal timescales are more sensible.
The delay is now often down to poor administration by the DWP in responding to MR requests.

I would completely agree with you that neither ESA or PIP are good at assessing mental health. Flawed ESA assessments (in particular) can drive people with poor mental health into a full blown crisis with all the cost that entails for individuals, families and society.

dave030445

Update: Wife phoned up this morning and As expected standard rate for both. So getting more letters from Dr and will send of for a MR. Sorted out the car can have it for another 6 months if needed if it goes to tribunal.

Muttleythefrog

dave030445 wrote: »

Update: Wife phoned up this morning and As expected standard rate for both. So getting more letters from Dr and will send of for a MR. Sorted out the car can have it for another 6 months if needed if it goes to tribunal.

The tighter any doctor evidence is to the criteria.... i.e. the descriptors you feel should apply to you... the better. Good luck!