postal PCN received after 14 days

Steven100

Hello,

I have read the stickies, but being a bit dumb in these matters, would appreciate some further guidance.

I received a PCN from UK CPM dated 19th April in respect of unuathorised parking on Oldbury Road on the 1st April. The letter was actually not received until 25th April.
This was the first communication I received and the letter included Photo's of my vehicle which must have been taken with a hand-held camera.

I wrote back to the parking company pointing out that the notice did not state where Oldbury road is, or to which land or other private property the notice relates.

I also noted that the PCN is dated 18 days after the alleged unauthorised parking and consequently UK CPM did not comply with the notice to keeper rules set out in the Protection of Freedoms Act, and I would not disclosing details of the driver, nor paying their invoice.

Just over a week later I received a letter from UK CPM telling me my appeal has been unsuccessful, and then pointing out that my vehicle is in breach of the terms and conditions of the car park The letter included pictures of the car and yellow circles highlighting where signs are placed on the wall behind it.

The letter says I can pay or appeal via the IAS, but I have read here that an appeal to IAS is not a good idea.

They seem to have completely ignored the basis of my original appeal!
Am I on solid legal ground with my reliance on them not being able to pursue me as the Keeper and UK CPM not being able to prove who was the driver?

If so, what should I write next and to whom?

Alternatively, should I just pay the £60 PCN and move on without all this hassle?

Thank you in advance for any assistance given.

Steven

Fruitcake

Since you appealed and got the guaranteed rejection we have come to expect from this unregulated industry, you are now in ignore mode unless you get real court papers in the next six years.

Of course you shouldn't pay. Whatever makes you think that you should? You won't find anyone here supporting the parking companies by telling people to pay.

Non POFA 2012 compliant NTK will be one of several defence points if it did go to court. This forum has a very good win rate as long as people follow the advice given here.

Just make sure you don't give away the driver's identity, either on here or anywhere else.

What happened when you complained to the landowner/retailer?

Umkomaas

They seem to have completely ignored the basis of my original appeal!

Nothing new there then. They never allow any appeal, so don't be too disappointed.

Am I on solid legal ground with my reliance on them not being able to pursue me as the Keeper and UK CPM not being able to prove who was the driver?

You'd hope so, but only a judge can confirm this. And we've seen plenty of mystifying decisions coming out of the small claims court. But given a fair wind you should be able to defend it successfully.

Does their NtK quote PoFA and notify you that they are pursuing you as keeper under PoFA?

They may try a fairly predictable IPC trick and work on the assumption that the keeper was the driver. They will probably quote (the now totally debunked in many private parking court cases) Elliott v Loake.

If you were definitely not the driver (no need to answer here) you should state that clearly in any communication with them.

See what their next move is.

Have you complained to the landowner and ask them to intervene to get this cancelled?

Steven100

Thank you both for your quick replies.

The PCN did not refer to PoFA and I suspect you are right in that they are are assuming the keeper was the driver. The PCN did say that if I were not the driver I should complete a section overleaf giving particulars of the driver. I didn't.

Details of the land owner (or in fact the land!) were not included in the PCN.
The name of the land owner, a gym, has only just been provided in the letter declining my appeal.

I'm struggling to see what would be gained by sending a letter to the gym?
I reckon it would most likely be someone from the Gym that took the photo's!

So you reckon there is no value in a further reply to UK CPM?

Umkomaas

Are you a member of the gym, if so then a complaint should be a first line of attack.

Once you've had yours appeal turned down, there is no further purpose in communicating with the PPC. Their next move is likely debt collector letters (nothing to concern yourself with - just ignore), possibly followed by solicitor letters (come back if you get any of those).

Steven100

Thank you, Umkomaas.
No I am not a member of the gym.
And of course my position in this matter is only that of keeper, not driver.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe I am under no legal obligation to provide details or the driver at the time of the alleged incident.

Surely it is incumbent upon UK CPM to establish details of the driver?

pappa_golf

Steven100 wrote: »

Thank you, Umkomaas.
No I am not a member of the gym.
And of course my position in this matter is only that of keeper, not driver.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe I am under no legal obligation to provide details or the driver at the time of the alleged incident.

Surely it is incumbent upon UK CPM to establish details of the driver?

or to keep a straighter poker face in court ,,

Steven100

Notwithstanding they are too late with the notice to chase the keeper, If I have to go through 6 years of hassle over this, I'm tempted just to cough up £60 and move on with life!

Thanks to those who contributed some help

Steven

Umkomaas

I'm tempted just to cough up £60 and move on with life!

Thereby funding them to destroy someone else's life who might be even less resilient than you. Like an old lady who has just lost her husband and has no one else in this world to turn to, or the couple whose two weeks' food budget will be needed to pay them off, meaning they'll have next to nothing to eat for a fortnight. And what about the cancer patient whose chemotherapy session has overrun, and which is now going to cost them £100. All very real cases we've seen here.

Yep, go ahead and pay it if you must, then move on with your life?

Why do you think these outfits survive? What if nobody paid them? Maybe they'd get a real job, even possibly helping people?

Steven100

I appreciate the advice you gave earlier, Umkomaas, and have empathy for your point of view above. I too spent yesterday afternoon at the hospital having tests for possible bowel cancer.
That is probably why I am oscillating between sticking it out and just getting another stress out my life.

Again, thanks for your input.

Steven

Umkomaas

Here's a bit of reading for you, so you know how the phrase 'Give them sites a good banging', sticks in my craw and what motivates me to come here every day to help.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2711460/Give-sites-good-banging-The-wardens-3k-bonuses-urged-bosses-issue-scores-parking-tickets-day.html

http://www.channel4.com/info/press/news/secrets-of-the-parking-wardens-channel-4-dispatches

Just be especially careful if you're likely to use hospital car parks in future. There is no mercy, no sympathy, not even empathy.

Sorry you're going through some difficult times. Hope it all works out okay.