Legal or Illegal

boggie40

Have received a letter from my boss today, who i discussed the B/R situation with prior to heading down this route.
They have informed me that me going bankrupt make my position as a manager of 90 members of staff untenable.
I have been given the option of stepping back down to the office floor or a possible redundancy package.
Obviously if i am going bankrupt and take the redundancy this will affect my ability to pay my creditors ???

Things had been tough enough over the last few weeks without this kick in the teeth, from a national company that i have given 23 years service to i guess loyalty means nothing nowadays.

Oh by the way when i discussed this matter with my area manager some 2 months ago he informed me that it would have no bearing on my job as a manager and i should be able to continue as i am, obviously this was all verbal so no evidence of this conversation !

PasturesNew

I know nothing. I always like to start with the facts.

But, I'd say do the step down thing. That way you have continuous service and one day can step up again.

If you take redundancy, first won't the money go to creditors - and - you'd have no job - and - you'd have to explain that away to any new potential employers.

Jennifer_Jane

Agree with PasturesNew, perhaps we don't have all the facts. So speak to your Union immediately. You work for a national company, there has to be union representation, so go and just have a chat about what the Company can and can't do. Even if you haven't paid subs, just chat with them to see what they have to say.

If no union, then check your contract, Company policies, HR, Citizens Advice Bureau - anything to try to get some clarity. It sounds grossly unfair to me but we don't know all sides of the story, of course.

Good luck
Jen
x

Richard_S

Hi boggie,

Take legal advice, consult your union, speak to your area manager; do whatever you can to clarify the situation.

BUT, don't even think about redundancy; that would be the absolute worst of all worlds.

You'd lose the lot to the O.R and find yourself unemployed with precious little chance of securing another well paid job.

Accept demotion, if they've treated you unfairly you can always claim compensation at a later date, but any monies you receive in the run up to, or during bankruptcy you'll lose.

Richard

maxmycardagain

speak to your CAB and to ACAS

do not discuss BR with any of your managers, its nothing to do with them

if you go BR take the max holiday you can, or go on the sick for 3 months

if you aint there, they cant sack you, and probably wont find out anyway.

http://www.acas.org.uk/

i was going to say tell em borrox but its a bit naughty......oh borrox, tell em to mind their own business!

Lizzibuff

maxmycardagain wrote: »

speak to your CAB and to ACAS

Yes ACAS are very good. I was trying to think of their name early when i read this post and couldn't so thanks for that mmca!

I have had advice from ACAS before and they are very good and specialise in contractual and empolyment stuff.

Good luck.

lucy7509

Hello

Your bankrupcy, implies that there is a question whether as a Manager, it would be appropriate for you to continue on in that position due to the fact that you may have financial responsibilities. In addition, there is the possibity of vicarous Liability about your bankrupcy affecting the image of the company.

I think their offer of the step down is quite reasonable, and one you should strongly consider, as once your BR is discharged you could reapply for your old position. It really is time to be humble and accept what is happening. Your employer does see the value in you or they would not have offered you what they have.

Redundancy would in my opinion be a mistake, as the sum you would receive would be used to pay off your debt and leave you with no job.
I might also like to note that you would be required to notify any future employer of your BR and getting another job in Management would be unrealistic until you are discharged and even than you would have to provide future employers with this paperwork.

I can tell you now from my previous experience in HR that any company you would apply for will take your BR into consideration and it will be an uphill climb to regain what you have lost.

If you stay with your current employer with your work history, they will not be as judgemental as a new employer.

Hope this helps

Lucy7509

allofadither

I'm inclined to agree with Blind on this one. I'm shocked to think that the best the OP can hope for is demotion....borrox as per maxmycardagain.

Sadly, I also think that having set this ball rolling, whether the company are right or wrong, the OP has now been placed in a very difficult position. Even if all the laws of the land state he can and should keep his job, the company may well make it impossible for him to do so by making his working life 'awkward'. :mad: Perhaps that's what they are banking on and hope he walks away. Shame on them. :mad:

lucy7509

Well. I don't understand why other people do not understand the employers position. Afterall it was not them, who placed the employee into financial hardship, this person has worked for them for over 20 years.

The implication of hiding it, is just naive. Some applications in the recruitment process for management do ask if you have ever been declared bankrupt, I know the company I previously worked for did, and if you lie on your application that alone is gross misconduct and therefore grounds for immediate termination.

Might I also add, that the IR change your tax status to reflect your bankrupcy, so even if you didn't tell anyone don't you think the guys in Finance would notice?

The offer to step down would be seen as 'reasonable' by the employer, and it may be some where in your T & C's that a requirement for the role was the ability to demostrate 'financial responsibility' my advise to step down was no different than what others posted here.

I have sat in interviews, with people who had declared themselves bankrupt, and were trying to find another job, it was soul distroying for them. There is still some stigma to it. My advice was genuine, I my advice to step down was to prevent the experience of explaining their situation with other potential employers, once discharged, doesn't necessary make it any easier cause you still need to provide papers to that effect.

Guess it really comes down to being greatful for what you have! OH and don't shoot the messager here, as I was only trying to help!:)

PixiePie

lucy7509 wrote: »

Might I also add, that the IR change your tax status to reflect your bankrupcy, so even if you didn't tell anyone don't you think the guys in Finance would notice?

Not having a go at anyone, please do not take it as such - I just wanted to point out for the benefit of anyone reading that and getting really stressed and worried about work etc finding out they are BR when they don't want them to know (and have no reason to), that the zero tax code is not just applied to BR's and therefore it's not automatically assumed that the person is a BR just because this has happened. I wondered why the tax couldn't just go straight to the OR, but one of the reasons they don't is because they don't want to stigmatise people unnecessarily by giving them a tax code that goes 'Hello, here - I'm a nasty, naughty BR, look look!!" So please don't worry about getting the zero tax code if you were before anyone, it's not the biggest deal with going BR

Richard_S

I was intrigued about Lucy's wealth of experience and during an idle moment while I was waiting for my ice cubes to freeze, I noticed the following:

"I have sat in interviews, with people who had declared themselves bankrupt"

"Having worked in a production factory"

"having worked in the catering industry for many years"

"Yes, I did mean self certification, as my previous role in HR has very little to do with the Property industry"

I thought it was only self employed people who needed Self Certification for a mortgage.

Interesting posts though.:rolleyes: :rolleyes: